Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast

S3 Ep11: Fashion, Fishing and a lot of Family History: Unearthing the Past with the Queen of Vintage Sophia Rosemary

• Dr Michala Hulme • Season 3 • Episode 11

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode of Unearth the Past, Dr Michala Hulme steps into the world of vintage fashion by delving into the extraordinary family history of fashion influencer and vintage queen Sophia Rosemary. What unfolds is a gripping tale of hardship, resilience, and unexpected revelations—a history shaped by strong women, wartime sacrifice, and even a Victorian-era crime.

Through archival records and historical sources, Sophia uncovers a gripping courtroom drama involving one of her ancestors—a theft scandal that played out in 19th-century England. But that’s just the beginning. As we trace her lineage through the early 20th century, we uncover the heartbreaking story of her great-great-grandfather, Herbert Simpson, who died at Gallipoli during World War I, and explore the working-class struggles of families in Lancashire and Yorkshire, enduring poverty, war, and social upheaval.

Sophia reflects on how her ancestral past has shaped her identity today—how the stories of her bold, resourceful female ancestors connect to her love of vintage fashion, her deep appreciation for nostalgia, and her passion for Northern Soul culture. From her grandmother Edith, who refused to let polio define her, to newspaper reports documenting family members involved in unlicensed pub operations, petty theft, and even fishing championships, this journey paints a vivid and raw picture of Northern working-class life across generations. Join us as we unearth the past with the brilliant Sophia Rosemary.


Useful links

Dr Michala Hulme

Sophia Rosemary

Top of the Town Vintage 

Support the show

Michala:

Hello and welcome back to Unearth the Past, a family history and genealogy podcast that delves into the lives of interesting people. I'm Dr Michaela Hume, historian and genealogist, and I've been researching family trees for the past 20 years. My guest today is a celebrated fashion influencer and vintage expert who has built a thriving career by reviving classic styles and curating a nostalgic aesthetic that resonates with fashion lovers around the world. From her early days as a fashion blogger to launching her own boutique, top of the Town Vintage, she has turned her passion for vintage into a successful business. With a deep commitment to sustainability, she not only preserves the charms of bygone eras, but also makes vintage fashion accessible and relevant for a new generation. Her keen eye for style, coupled with her authentic storytelling, has earned her a loyal following of over 270,000 Instagram fans, drawn to her effortlessly timeless look and charismatic personality.

Michala:

Ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by the brilliant Sophia Rosemary Barasi. Sophia, welcome to the podcast. Sophia, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thank you for having me. So you are just the queen of vintage vintage. I remember when I came to see you and you took your ancestry DNA test, I was literally in your kitchen and I think you just made a dress out of a tea cloth yes, out of it.

Sophia:

That sounds like me that checks out.

Michala:

Yeah that was unbelievable, by the way, very impressed.

Sophia:

Yeah, that, yeah, that was like a project I had over last summer and I've had to have a break from the tea towels and tablecloths for a while Because I was literally drowning in vintage tablecloths Because I was making shirts for my shop.

Michala:

Right, let's talk about this. Okay, I'm so excited, by the way, so you have your own shop. Sure, yeah, in Stock in Stockport. True, in the cool bit of Stockport. Stockport's now cool if you're not from Stockport. No, it wasn't really when I was growing up.

Sophia:

It is now do you know what it is. I feel like just there's a lot of really amazing creative people in Stockport and I feel like we've all kind of turned around at vaguely the same time and gone. Do you know what? Like, where we live is actually really cool and it could be something amazing. Yeah, so I feel like that's what's happened. I don't think it's like one person or one thing. I think it's just like right people, right time. I just love it yeah.

Michala:

So tell me right, take me way back. So how did you like? Obviously you've always, I imagine, had a bit of a knack for fashion, but where did the particular period of your interest come in?

Sophia:

it's so strange it really. I mean I say that. So my mum is really into the northern soul scene still goes northern soul dancing so do my family.

Michala:

They probably, they're probably on the circuit together, absolutely obsessed with and it's like it's a way of life, isn't it like it's?

Sophia:

it's it. I would almost say it's like a religion to you, though. Have you ever tried to dance it? It looks. When I was younger, yeah, well, I used to be a little bit of a mod when I was like younger, so it was it all. It all was very. There was a. There was a synergy to my mum liking northern soul and then me being a little mod, and I used to go with her and be like this is perfect, I'm gonna live like this forever. So I did, but I never think like some of them are incredible it's so difficult.

Michala:

Yeah, get like the sort of the shuffle right is so hard. I follow loads of northern soul people.

Sophia:

I think they're based in bristol now, um, and there's one of the girls I think she's called Laverna or Lavina, and she is just unbelievable they look like they're gliding, like it is such a talent and I think if you look at it and you've never seen northern soul dancing before, you're a bit like what are these people just shuffling around? But actually, like they're like feeling the music. It's amazing, it's so admirable, and so that is then what inspired. So I grew up on that and it's weird, isn't it?

Sophia:

When you're a kid you think you kind of don't know outside of the way you're brought up. So me, like knowing really rare like Bobby, like knowing the words to Bobby Hebb at the age of like seven, I just thought all kids knew that, like Frankie Wilson no, we didn't all, we weren't all singing along to that at the age of five. So I feel like that's probably it really deeply set in me that there's been that affinity with 60s and 70s. And then, as I grew up as sort of I teenage years, I really grew to love Audrey Hepburn, a lot of the cinematography that was around in the 60s, loved Hitchcock films, but even just the scenery in them and the clothes. It wasn't always about the storyline as such. I got into a lot of French cinema, a lot of French new wave, lot of like French new wave cinema because I was indie so cool.

Sophia:

Yeah, a tale as old as time and yeah, I just um, I just got nerdy. I got nerdy with the 60s and 70s and and still am like it's um, it's quite embarrassing. I can look at like a care label and be like, oh, oh, that was the end of 1960s, because they're just that kind of craziness.

Michala:

What is your favourite, then? 60s icon, especially in terms of clothes Like who do you look at and think they've got an amazing wardrobe?

Sophia:

Oh, it's so hard to pick one because it's like, depending on my mood, I always go back to George Harrison, which is that I feel that because there's so many women out that, like Marianne Faithfull's big for me, francois Hardy, jane Birkin, I these are the people Audrey Hepburn obviously like the pinnacle of all style icons, but in terms of like everyday style, george Harrison, I go back to him like he's just like king of denim, king of just looking like you've just like stepped out of your from gardening and you just happen to be wearing a really cool outfit.

Michala:

I love this. So how did it go from okay like, like in the 60s and 70s to then creating this massive online following and opening your own shop?

Sophia:

I think you know it's. I suppose like when you do something that you you just really oh, that sounds, that sounds a bit cliche. I was gonna say you're really passionate about it just shines through, but like it's weird because you just do it organically. Yeah, so I studied fashion, I worked in fashion merchandising, um, and a bit of buying for a few years and then but I'm quite a creative person as well and as much as I love like the business side of it and I love a little bit of number crunching, I always had this like little itch that wasn't being scratched in terms of creativity.

Sophia:

So started the blog and, yeah, it was just just, it really was. I think it downplays how the hard work I put into it by going. Yeah, it just seems it just spiraled from there, because part of it was that it was right place, right time. Instagram was just taking off, um, and I think it was this beauty of Instagram taking off and these really normal girls such as myself being able to find like-minded other girls who had the same interests or like, and it wasn't just a magazine anymore or a model or someone who felt a little bit out of reach or inobtainable, it was just ordinary girls and I think, being northern as well, were probably played a part into that. Um, and yeah, it just, it did just kind of take off from there, and because I loved it and I loved talking about fashion and what inspired me, um, I just worked hard at it.

Michala:

If there are people watching this, we have a very large American audience. How can they find you, sophia?

Sophia:

so they can find me on Instagram Sophia underscore, rosemary um. Or they can find me through my shop's instagram, which is top of the town, vintage um. And if they're ever in the uk, they can find me in real life in my shop yeah, it's fabulous.

Michala:

You also, by the way, get to meet sophia's dog, who, I don't want to say, is the star of the show Buddy cannabis. Yeah Right, should we crack on and look into your family tree? Yes, I'm feeling very excited, very nervous. Now slight disclaimer audience. Sophia is a brilliant historian and she has done a cracking job at this family tree, so I know yes 100%.

Michala:

Now I know there are stories in here which you know. I'm still going to talk about them anyway because our lovely audience don't know. So you can help me fill in bits that you know, I think, as we go along yeah, I'll try.

Sophia:

It's so difficult when in your family tree there's a lot of the same names.

Michala:

Yes, and especially on your mum's side. A lot of them are very Lancastrian sort of Yorkshire-y names and there's so many people with the same name because it's, like you know, born and bred Yorkshire or Middleton or yes 100%.

Michala:

Now I've printed off a little family tree. We've gone a lot further back than this, but I'm just going to give you that Thank you. Now, as Sophie has already mentioned, this is sort of part one of our chat. Part two we will pick up again in the summer when I go to Italy and research your dad's side of the tree. This is crazy. This is a work trip. So yeah, so it turns out. I've now got three family trees in Italy that need researching. What areas? Different areas and obviously.

Sophia:

I've got to go, like I would rather not say if anyone asked Tuscany.

Michala:

My favourite part of the world. So we've got Sicily. Oh nice, I've never been.

Sophia:

I've never been. I'd love to go to Sicily uh Naples.

Michala:

I think you're Naples, I'm Naples, you're Naples as well, aren't you? So we've got two in Naples, sicily. I'm gonna say this terribly Palmero, palmero, yeah, which is Sicily that's yeah yeah, so got to go there. That's for somebody else who's coming up, so in total I've got three different people who we're going to be recording that Italian side later on in the year. It's a work trip. That's so exciting. Hmrc are watching just to repeat.

Sophia:

I repeat one more time please.

Michala:

I am not having fun, um, okay, so let's make a start then. So I'm gonna start with, obviously, your mum's line yes, and your grandmother is Edith Dawson. She is, yeah, talk to me about Edith. She's amazing, is she amazing?

Sophia:

Yeah she was amazing. She was amazing, she was just such. You know, she contracted polio when she was younger, wow. So she always had a caliper on her leg and it never, from what I know of her being young, it never affected her. She was such a feisty, like very sort of yeah, she was such a feisty woman, like such a strong, resilient woman. I've got an amazing picture of her and she stood by the side of like a public pool and it says no, not like non-swimmers beyond this point, and she wouldn't have been able to go and swim because she was in a caliper and you know, um, she wouldn't have been able to and she's smiling by this sign and I always think that is such a testament to what Edith was like.

Sophia:

You know, it didn't phase her that, she was kind of different. She was just really like strong and yeah, just an incredible woman, and I really miss her and have you do?

Michala:

you think you've got some traits that have passed down?

Sophia:

yeah, I think I look like my gran as well. Yeah, I think I, especially as I'm older, like I can see my face in hers. But yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean she could be a really scary woman at times, but she was soft deep down. You know, if anyone came around to the house, she was there with a future pink lipstick on, just like just judging up her hair, just in case.

Michala:

Just in case. Yeah, that sounds like my Nana. Just, you never know who's gonna come around. This is it? This is it? So? Your grandmother then is edith dawson and your grandfather is james f simpson. Yes, correct, yes, so I thought we'd start down your mum's paternal line. Let's do it so. James f simpson. Then. He was born on the 10th of september 1926, and the first record I have for him following his birth is a 1939 register, and this is taken at the very start of world war ii, right? I'm gonna pass that over to you. If you can just try and read the records out, that would be great. Don't worry, sophia, because, as you well know, the handwriting on most of them is dreadful.

Michala:

Yes, it's so scrawly, it's horrendous, but let's try, okay. So here is the 1939 register and they're living at number 11. If you can make out anything, that would be great wow, this is this really italic writing, isn't it? It's that writing at school that you only got you move from a pencil to a pen once you could do join up writing.

Sophia:

I mean, it's beautiful writing. Yeah, wow, it is. So I am at number 11. I can't make out the street. Booth Street, they live on Booth Street, okay, and it's Charles. No, oh my god, harris, harris, is there a harris in there? It's not harry I can see. Is there a james? I can see a james. I feel like I can see two jameses, though. Is that right? Yes, so that's right dad and son. Okay, right, it is bad, isn't it? It's so bad. How do you do this? It's like deciphering code.

Michala:

Do you want me to have a look, see if I can transcribe it? Yeah, so on the 1939 register, then you've got James F Simpson. He was born on the 10th of September 1926, as we've mentioned. Simpson, he was born on the 10th of September 1926, as we've mentioned. You've got his dad, who is also, who is James Francis Simpson. He was born on the 23rd of August 1896, and he is a Slater and a Tyler. And you've got Anne Simpson, who was born on the 27th of September 1900. They would be your great-grandparents. So James Francis Simpson, then, who is your great-grandfather? As mentioned, he was born on the 23rd of August 1896 in Knaresborough, which is in Yorkshire. Yes, yorkshire. Got a little picture of the town Very pretty.

Sophia:

Wow, this is amazing. It's kind of thriving, isn't it? Just isn't it? That's incredible.

Michala:

Doesn't it make you want to live there? I saw it and I thought I could see myself actually quite living there.

Sophia:

Yeah, this definitely looks like somewhere that I would go on a day trip. That's so sweet.

Michala:

So I have managed to get your great-grandfather's birth certificate. Wow.

Sophia:

I'm going to pass it over.

Michala:

I think it's slightly better this one.

Sophia:

It better be, because I mean I did. Oh yes, this is beautiful. Okay, so when and where? So, 23rd of August 1896, on chapel street, james francis, he was a boy and his dad was called herbert simpson and his mum was called maria simpson, formerly king. They are a a mason's laborer. Okay, they are living chapel Street, chapel Street.

Michala:

Right yeah, Chapel Street.

Sophia:

And then it's just got yeah the registrar.

Michala:

Now his parents, which would be your great-great-grandparents, are Bricklayer Herbert Simpson and Maria King, and they have seven children. They all have a lot of children, yeah, yeah. So they've got your great-grandfather James, they've got Herbert Holmes, king Charles, arthur, king Ellen, we've also got Hilda, tom and Harry. Now, following his birth, your great-grandfather I managed to find him on the 1901 census where he is staying with his aunt. So he is staying with his aunt Edith Simpson and her husband John Calvert in Leeds. I don't quite know why he's staying with his aunt, but he is Okay, he's staying with aunt Edith.

Michala:

Sometime after the spring of 1904, herbert, his mum and his dad and the rest of the family leave Yorkshire and head for Middlesex, before eventually arriving in Middleton, manchester. So they kind of go on a bit of a tour. Yeah, I'm presuming it's to do with his job. Yeah, that's probably why they went on a tour. Herbert and Maria, on the 1911 census, have managed to secure a two up, two down terrace on Mill Hill and Mill Hill is in Middleton and I have a picture of it and I've actually got a picture of the house. If you look through that tunnel you will see their house on Mill Hill, that is crazy.

Sophia:

So what number Do we have any idea? Like they're just one of these, right? Yes, it's one of those on Mill Hill.

Michala:

They look nice, they do, don't they? I feel though they weren't.

Sophia:

They probably weren't. They probably weren't as nice I'm not thinking of it by today's standard Like this is a clean road.

Michala:

Yeah, like definitely worth a million pounds. I'm not thinking of it by today's standard. This is a clean road, yeah definitely worth a million pounds.

Sophia:

now, I mean, Mill Hill sounds, I suppose it sounds very Northern, very Lancashire. I'm expecting, yeah, maybe a slight bleakness.

Michala:

Now that's the last record that I have for them, the 1911 census as a whole family In 1914,. They did face some tragedy when their son, Charles Arthur Simpson, sadly passes away and I've got a copy of his death certificate if you want to have a look at that. Yeah, absolutely so this would be James's brother. Okay, if you can just read out. Don't try and read out the cause of death Again, the handwriting is terrible. I don't know if you can make it out great, don't worry if you can't.

Sophia:

Okay, so 12th of March 1914, Royal Infirmary South Manchester, Charles Arthur Simpson, male, 15 years old. Wow, so where he lives, 10 Mill Hill, Middleton, A little piercer piecer.

Michala:

So he worked in the mill.

Sophia:

Wow, okay, which is like a really hard life, isn't it? It's, that's not that's. Oh yeah, I can't, but the the actual death part is it's really hard to decipher.

Michala:

When I looked into it and did a search of it it could mean literally anything. So it could mean, for example, if you had syphilis, you would die of that Do you know what I'm saying?

Sophia:

Yeah, yeah.

Michala:

There were so many different diseases that would lead to that sort of death that I'm not quite sure exactly what it is that he had.

Sophia:

Yeah, If that makes sense, no, that makes perfect sense, yeah.

Michala:

Now, I know, you know, because I know you've done a bit of research into this, I'll grab that back. That World War I happened, yes, and we know that Herbert signs up for World War I and I know you know that he died in Gallipoli. I did know that. So what was that like, finding that out? So talk me through your family tree journey, right, yeah?

Sophia:

so talk me through your family tree journey, right, yeah, so yeah, it was kind of um, it was to kind of see what the what my family's involvement in the world wars was actually was it, yeah, and and it was um, I knew my granddad was too young for World War II, yeah, and so it was interesting to see that there was with the Great War, there was something there, yeah.

Michala:

You know something, which had a record to it, I suppose as well, and did you know that? So, when you started looking, did you know then that he, obviously your great-great-grandfather, had died in Gallipoli, or was this?

Sophia:

completely new. Yeah, no, my mum had kind of alluded to to it, yeah, um, and I thought, okay, we'll see, we'll see how far I get with this, obviously being a complete amateur looking into my own family tree, um, but it was actually one of the more prevalent pieces of documentation that I could find and actually I used that then to. He was kind of my um, like solid fact that I then used to just, yes, yes, we all have those. Yeah, like I know this to be true, yeah, okay, let's work around him.

Michala:

Yeah, okay, so obviously just just picking up on that then. So Britain enters into World War I in 1914. We know that your great-grandfather, james, joins the war effort. He signs up to the Welsh regiment. His brother, henry Holmes Simpson, joins the Lancashire Fusiliers, as did their dad, herbert Simpson. Now, as mentioned, only two out of the three would survive the war. Yeah, your two-times great-grandfather, herbert simpson, was in the first battalion of the lancashire fusiliers. On the 25th of april 1915, the lancashire fusiliers land in gallipoli. They faced a hail of machine gun fire and in fact six of his comrades were awarded the vc. Wow, most given out in in, you know, to a single battalion in one battle. Wow, they actually they're known as the six VCs before breakfast. That's what they're known as. That's crazy.

Michala:

He was there. Yeah, he was there, he. He took part in those landings. Six of his comrades got the VC. That tells you how bad it was. Basically, yeah, yeah, on the 28th of June 1915, he's recorded as missing and I found a little entry to him in the newspaper which I'm going to show you now. So we know that on the 28th of June he's reported as missing. The Lancashire Post reports on the 17th of August that's reported as missing. The Lancashire Post reports on the 17th of August that he's still missing. Wow, okay. So I'm going to show you this now and you should just see a reference to him just in that little list. Okay, so this is everyone that.

Sophia:

So this is everyone that's missing. This is everyone that's missing. Yeah, I can spot him straight away. Wow, that must have been so scary for his wife as well. Maria to just this is all she's got. This is her update.

Michala:

Especially when she's still got a husband's fighting and she's still got two sons fighting as well yeah, yeah, I don't think they ever find his body.

Michala:

Wow, okay, so he's. Just, I don't think they ever find his body, so they put his date of death as the date he goes missing. But we know, I mean, this is the 17th of August. Two months later, he's still missing. Yeah, yeah, there is a memorial to him, as you will know. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know, there's nothing to say that they ever found him, that's so so awful, and so awful for his wife as well, yeah especially then. Now she's now a widow, having to bring up the children on her own.

Sophia:

Yeah, and two of them are still over there fighting. Yeah, and they're still over there fighting. It's just, yeah, it's unimaginable, isn't it?

Michala:

Now I'm going to stay with Herbert, if that's okay. Yeah, now I'm going to stay with Herbert, if that's okay. So Herbert's parents are Carpenter William Simpson and Ellen Holmes. They would be your three times great grandparents and it kind of makes sense that they call their son Herbert Holmes Simpson because named after the grandmother. Basically, that's where your granddad's brother, Herbert Holmes Simpson, gets his names from Okay, if that makes any sense whatsoever. Yeah, that feels very modern. I did find a few newspaper articles relating to William Don't panic. Okay Now.

Sophia:

What did you do?

Michala:

William, it was mostly for crimes, believe it or not, relating to animals hang fire. Okay, it's not bad. Bad, basically, in 1899 he was fined one shilling. And he was fined one shilling and seven pence in cost for not controlling his animals. Okay, so there's a few of those where he's basically not in control of his cows and they're going all over the highway and he's being pulled in. Okay, then in 1898, sophia, he was fined for failing to muzzle his dog why do yeah?

Michala:

yeah. So just to give you a bit of background to this, rabies is a real issue, yeah, and in the West Yorkshire region in 1898, there'd already been seven cases of rabies. So they brought in basically muscling orders to basically say if your dog is out in public, you make sure that they have a muslin. And he didn't want to do that and he didn't want to do that and he didn't. He didn't want to do that. So he basically didn't put a muzzle on his dog and he was caught and he faced a fine of one shilling, uh, plus seven shillings and six pence in cost. So it was more in cost than it actually was for the fine. Um, that's so pointless, I know, but he was like made a bit of an example of. There were other cases that day to say, look, make sure you muzzle your dogs. And he, oh, he was that guy.

Sophia:

He was that guy that had to muzzle his dog I mean he should have muzzled his dog, but I also like that he stood by the fact of like my dog doesn't need a muzzle, my dog's not got rabies yeah, which I'm like. My dog won't bite anymore.

Michala:

Yeah, as a dog lover, yeah yeah, so yeah, that was uh just a couple of so, yeah, okay, that's yeah, that's not as a vegetarian, that's nice to know.

Sophia:

There's no like no, he wasn't, there wasn't anything. Yeah, no, he just couldn't keep them under control. Yeah, muscle them, I like him. Yeah, he, he believed in free range before free range before free range my kind of man yes now I'm gonna hop over to the king's side of your tree.

Michala:

Okay, amazing. Now what do you know about the king's side of your tree? I don't, I not a lot, I don't think. No, you didn't uncover anything in your research. It was, I think.

Sophia:

I found this is where I maybe potentially found the king's quite difficult, okay, um, I think I ended up with people who weren't actually on my tree on my tree, yeah, and I think this is where things started to unravel for me a bit, because I think I followed the sort of Simpson trail.

Michala:

You did a really good job, by the way.

Sophia:

Thank you.

Michala:

Because you don't know.

Sophia:

You've got no one to go.

Michala:

Yeah, that's right. If ever people stop buying your clothes, come and work for me Like a dog with a bone, like history related, um. So we've just spoke about her, but then just yeah, people following along. Herbert's wife is maria king. Yeah, we're gonna have a look at that side of your family now. Maria king would be your great, great grandmother. I love that she was called maria as well, yes, so do I.

Sophia:

What a beautiful. I love that she was called Maria as well. Yes, so do I. What a beautiful name. Yeah, and like actually quite Italian as well.

Michala:

Yeah, we'll take that, even though you know she wasn't born in Italy. No At all.

Sophia:

But there's an essence there.

Michala:

It's foreboding, not foreboding, it's foreshadowing, exactly it's foreboding not foreboding, it's foreshadowing exactly where her family's gonna end up. Yeah, um, I did find an article believe it or not from 1899. Okay, that not only mentions maria, oh, but also mentions herbert. Yeah, and I've transcribed it and I wondered if you could just have a little read of it. You'll just see it's that paragraph there. Can you read that?

Sophia:

so, oh, so from here, yeah, so James King, a labourer from Narsborough, I'm pronouncing it like that.

Michala:

Yorkshire people might write in and say I've pronounced it wrong, but I've gone for Nair's.

Sophia:

Sorry, yorkshire folk, we love you. Yeah. Was charged with theft by his sister, maria Simpson, for stealing a sheet and a knife from the home of her husband, herbert Simpson, on the 25th of the month. Maria had placed the sheet near a pair of drawers and after James visited her house for about a half an hour, she discovered it missing. Later that evening she confronted him and he admitted to taking it. Her sister, eliza King, helped recover the sheet from a second-hand dealer, owen Wynne, who had bought it from James for one shilling and later sold it back to Eliza for the same amount. You know what Owen Wynne, wynne, wynne Wynne, sergeant Minty apprehend. Sergeant Minty sounds made up.

Michala:

And, if I'm honest, he is on that family.

Sophia:

Yeah, let's see. See, wow, he sounds fictional. Apprehended james as he left his sister's house, but james discarded the knife and the sheet before being taken into custody on the way to the police station he became violent and had to be carried in court. James claimed a stranger had asked him to sell the sheet. I love that it was someone else, um, but he could not identify the man. Oh, oh, you got to get your story straight before you start throwing out accusations like that. With a history of previous convictions, james was sentenced to 14 days of hard labor and also committed for perjury. Oh man, how does that make you feel? I mean, that is a series of unfortunate events, isn't it?

Michala:

yeah, but you know like theft is never good, no, not to his sister as well, like that's.

Sophia:

Like that's not cool. I mean, I can only imagine how hard times were, though like I feel like I come back to that quite a lot. Yeah, I think the real villain of this story is Owen Wynne Sorry, wynne Wynne out there.

Michala:

I mean he's really monopolized off he wasn't giving it back, was he that was so mean.

Sophia:

Like you're going to. Yeah, so he was probably rubbing his hands together and yeah, so that's probably my main takeaway. Maria Simpson as well, I suppose, like the fact that I mean she was very loyal to her husband in the fact that she actually kind of dubs in her brother. Yeah, she's probably like you little so-and-so.

Michala:

James King, who we've mentioned, who is Maria's brother, is a bit of a tea leaf. There's a few articles about him getting himself in trouble stealing clothes, but sometimes he's acquitted, sometimes he's not, but he appears in the newspaper quite a bit.

Sophia:

Well, it says he's got previous convictions in that article. I read out as well.

Michala:

So yeah, yeah, it was not his first rodeo, it was definitely not. Now I'm gonna pick up maria's story. She was born in 1871 in nairnsborough, um. Her mother is called ruth king, formerly moral as in m o, double r e, double l okay, and her father is Francis King. He is a labourer Now. Francis King, I think it's fair to say, was a bit of a rogue. He was in trouble with the police quite a bit. Oh no.

Sophia:

And it seems to all stem around alcohol.

Michala:

Yeah, so I wondered if I found an article. This is the first article that I could find about him from 1876. It's just a little small paragraph. I've transcribed it. I wonder if you could just read the article, okay so this one here, yeah, the top one.

Sophia:

So this newspaper article. This newspaper article reports on a case of willful damage involving Francis King, a labourer from Harrogate, who was charged with breaking a quantity of pots and a clock door belonging to his sister-in-law, maria Murill. On the 4th of July, according to Maria, king entered her house, used abusive language and then threw pots at her, breaking them. When she ordered him to leave, he threw a pair of tongs at her. He then chased her into the yard and hit her twice. The damage to the pots was estimated to be two shillings. King admitted to breaking the crockery but claimed the clock was his own. He stated that he had been drinking and was under the influence and had gone to retrieve the clock. The court fined him five shillings and ordered him to pay nine shillings inexpensive oh my, wow, that's like double the yeah, double the price, but also like, yeah, what?

Michala:

uh, I think I think alcohol obviously didn't agree with him and he spends a lot of time, according to the newspapers, being picked up for being drunk and disorderly. Yeah With, I think it's his brother-in-law that he tends to drink with. So, yeah, what a lousy guy, though. So I think that must have been hard for Maria living in that house with her mum and dad, with him drinking all the time. Yeah, them arguing. It must have been, you know, quite a difficult upbringing for her.

Sophia:

Yeah, and these it always just makes me think, like these poor women who just sort of took the brunt of men drinking around them and it really affecting their personalities and what came with that.

Michala:

it's so scary and it must have been so difficult, because when he goes in you know you're bringing up the children. There's no sort of welfare state like we've got today. There's nobody to protect you. Um, so that must, that must have been really hard. So that was francis king. Now all the. There are a few kings that appear in the newspaper, but not all for bad reasons great, because we really need that at this point.

Michala:

Yes, I'm yeah hating the men in the family a bit there, yeah, so francis king's brother, benjamin, appears in the paper quite a lot, and that's because he is an absolute brilliant fisherman. Oh you go, thank you, zoe. So he is winning angling awards all the time. What National awards for fishing? That's incredible. Yeah, love that, love that for him.

Sophia:

So you know, not all the kings are in the paper, for some of them are just trying to, you know, get the catch of the day literally, you know athletes, yeah, yeah, love that now, I'm gonna that's sweet, I'm gonna move on, because we haven't got long left and I just want to talk to you about your traits.

Michala:

I want to see if any of these traits are true that your dna are telling me. Are you a morning person, a night person? Are you a picky eater? So many things. I want to talk to you about your traits. I want to see if any of these traits are true that your dna are telling me. Are you a morning person, a night person? Are you a picky eater? So many things I want to know. Okay, um, so let's just flick over then to the other side of your mum's tree minnie kirby minnie, yeah, yes, minnie kirby then was born in 1889. She is your great-grandmother. Her parents are John Kirby and Alice Anne Saxon, which would be your great-great-grandparents. John Kirby was born in Kent in 1862. And John's father, francis, was born in Ireland. So on that side of your tree, we do go back to.

Sophia:

Ireland.

Michala:

Wow, I didn't know. See, I didn't know that. Yeah, you may also not know then that he was in the military. Okay, no, so. Yes, so he was in the 49th foot and Francis married Mary Goldsmith in Kent in 1861. And for the next decade, the family spend their time traveling around because Francis is in the military, john's dad is in the military. So they go from Lancashire, they're in Ireland, for a while they're in India, which is where three of the children are born and christened. That's amazing, yep. From India, they go to Newcastle before they settle in Congleton, where Frances finds employment as an agricultural labourer.

Michala:

So Alice Anne Saxon, who you should see on there, who is your great-great-grandmother? Yeah, she is the daughter of Samuel Saxon and Mary Garside, who would be your great-great-grandparents. Samuel was born in 1826 and he worked in textiles. Okay, but he didn't just work in textiles, oh no, oh no, he was a silk weaver. But he also was the landlord of the Friendship Inn.

Sophia:

That's kind of yeah, that's a lot. Those seem like two very different careers. I can't believe he was doing both of those. He was doing both of those. He was hustling yeah.

Michala:

However, unfortunately it didn't last. Oh no, so he was the landlord of the French pin in Middleton. It didn't last. And I can tell you why it didn't last because I've got a newspaper article. As always, your family I love because they're in the paper all the time.

Sophia:

Are they really? It's great, I love it. Well, I'm not sure I love this, but I mean, at least it makes things a bit colourful.

Michala:

The reason it didn't last is because he loses his licence and they will only give the licence. They will only licence the friendship pin if it's given to somebody else. And this is just if you sort of summarise this. Don't know if you have a quick, quick read. This is why he loses his license.

Sophia:

Okay, breaches of the license act. At the middleton police court yesterday, before um t dickens and tb wood, james chadwick of irk street, middleton, was held. Who holds a license for selling beer off the premises was fined five pounds and costs for serving five men with beer in his own pots which was consumed about two yards from his door. Oh, so it was like a technicality really yeah.

Michala:

so basically they'd brought in new licensing laws and you should see his name.

Sophia:

Mr Clark's solicitor attended and attempted to prove that this was sold, that what was sold was cider, but without effect. Samuel Saxon, landlord of the Friendship Inn, cheapside, middleton, was fined in a similar amount for serving beer at half past nine, nine o'clock on Sunday morning. Okay, yeah, so here's okay. So the other guy, his sounds like a technicality. Yeah, so his, so okay, so the other guy, his sounds like a technicality. Um, samuel Saxon, half past nine on a Sunday morning? Oh, yeah, it's, it's not. It's not a good look. No, no, it seems irresponsible.

Michala:

Sophia, that is all we have time for. In terms of your family tree, yeah, we took a little dive into it. There's loads, by the way, which, yeah, which I'm gonna let you, yeah, read and go through, which I'm going to share with you before we disappear. Though, you did an ancestral DNA test, didn't you? Yes, and I know that you are dying to know, because I'm just making this up about where you're from and your traits, and absolutely, okay, right, when I, okay, here we go, right, it may surprise you to know that you are 50% Italian. I am shocked. You are 42% England and northwestern Europe, and we can zoom in even further to say West Midlands and North West England. Okay, really, haven't moved.

Michala:

No, no, no, I'll be honest, no, and there's a tiny bit of Scotland which I think has probably come from the North East. Yeah, okay, traits, I'm going to be quick. Are you competitive To a degree? Maybe it says you are likely to be quick. Are you competitive to a degree? Maybe it says you are likely to be competitive.

Sophia:

Oh, wow, yeah, um, caffeine intake oh okay, it says you don't drink a lot of caffeine. No, I don't. That's true.

Michala:

I can only have one a day you are likely to drink a lot less caffeine than average. Less than one drink a day, yeah, no that's that.

Sophia:

that's really true, oh that's weird. Because if I have more than one, it brings on a migraine. Yeah, eye colour.

Michala:

Dark, true, true Facts. Pet ownership you are likely to have a pet. Yeah, true, yeah, no lies told there. No, I'm trying to think if there's anything else In terms of picky eater. You're sort of middle but towards less likely to be a picky eater.

Sophia:

I can be picky but no, I wouldn't say like Overly picky, no.

Michala:

Last one risk taking. Now this says you avoid taking risks.

Sophia:

Yes, that's so true. I was going to say If I do not take risks, I am a scaredy cat. I like safety, I don't like change, I don't like. I don't like roller coasters. I only drive certain routes that I know. There are no risks in my life, or a minimal risk. I love this. Yeah, sophia, thank you so much on that note. Thank you for taking a risk coming on my podcast. Thank you for having me.

Michala:

I've loved this. Thank you so much, and I can't wait for part two, the italian yeah, to be continued yes, thank you so much.

Michala:

Thank you, so that is it for this week's podcast. A huge, huge thank you to my wonderful guest, sophia. I will put a link in the podcast description so you can check Sophia out on Instagram, and also I'll put a link to her website so you can take a look at the shop. She has got some amazing vintage pieces for sale, so if you are into your vintage fashion, make sure you check it out. And a huge thank you to every single person that has listened, if you are listening on Spotify or Apple or if you're watching this on Ancestry's YouTube channel. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to engage in this podcast. I really, really appreciate it, and if you want to get in touch with me, if you want to chat to me about anything family history related, you can do so via my website, which is wwwmichaelahewcom. Have a fantastic week and I shall see you again soon.