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S3 Ep8: Finding May's Mum: Unearthing the Past with PR Pioneer Lisa Morton

• Dr Michala Hulme • Season 3 • Episode 8

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In this episode of Unearthed Past, historian and genealogist Dr. Michala Hume sits down with Lisa Morton, founder of the award-winning PR agency Roland Dransfield and host of We Built This City. Lisa shares her deep connection to Manchester and Salford, reflecting on her childhood, her entrepreneurial journey, and the stories that shaped her family. But this time, the tables are turned as Dr. Hume uncovers Lisa’s hidden family history, revealing incredible tales of resilience, migration, and even Mormon pioneers who crossed America in search of a better life.

From Salford’s tight-knit communities to Utah’s rugged landscapes, this episode is a fascinating journey through the past that will leave you wondering about your own family’s untold stories.

Tune in for a captivating blend of history, genealogy, and personal discovery, packed with surprises and emotional revelations.

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Lisa Morton
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Michala:

Hello and welcome back to Unearthed Past, a family history and genealogy podcast that delves into the lives of interesting people. I'm Dr Michaela Hume, historian and genealogist, and I've been researching family trees for the past 25 years. Today, I am joined by one of my favourite people. Lisa Morton is the founder of Roland Dransfield, an award-winning Manchester and London-based PR agency. A strong and resilient force in business, she has spent decades helping brands tell their stories while building a reputation as a leader in her field. She is also the host of the brilliant podcast we Built this City, where she celebrates the lives of Mancunians who have left their mark. But today it's Lisa's turn in the hot seat as we explore hidden family tales and fascinating ancestors. Lisa Morton, welcome to the podcast, lisa. Thank you so much, by the way, for coming on my podcast. I really, really appreciate it. I'm honoured.

Lisa:

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Michala:

Now we met, didn't we? Through a mutual friend, I've known of you for years, obviously because this is Miss Manchester, or Mrs Manchester, which probably would be Miss Manchester, as it likes to be called, because nothing happens in Manchester really that she doesn't know about or hasn't gone through, through Lisa, through your brilliant company, roland Dransfield. Can you just tell me, then, how did that start to take me back to the 90s?

Lisa:

Yeah.

Michala:

I was probably wearing naff naff, do you remember? Naff naff Joe Bloggs.

Lisa:

Yeah, they were the days. They were the days. Grosh bottle tops on my Doc Martens yes, so well. I got into PR because I turned down a job in advertising in London because they had there were no flat vowels and they were all smoking Marlboro Lights, menthols and I was like I don't belong here. My mum was livid and I turned down what was a 14 grand a year job then and came back to Manchester and so got my first job in PR in Manchester on Salford Crescent and then worked for a couple of agencies but I always wanted to have my own business.

Lisa:

So pretty early on in my career I started Roland Dransfield up and named Roland Dransfield is actually the name of my godfather and he was my dad's boss and he found my dad under his car.

Lisa:

He was alive, he was mending his car, he was a regular mechanic he's a regular guy that works on Roland's cars who was rags to riches in Salford in engineering and he liked my dad and my dad's work ethic so much that he offered dad a job and Roland basically changed our life because my dad had an opportunity then that we all benefited from and that's why I named the business after Roland Dransfield, because he also set me up in my first business when I was eight, which was car washing. And he went go out and clean these cars for this bucket and this sponge, come back, and if you can pay me for the bucket and the sponge, you're in profit. If not, you will owe me some more next week and I had that car wash. I was in profit. I don't know what I paid. I had to pay him back. I can't remember, but I had that car washing around till I was 15. I fell in love with shoes and worked in a shoe shop this leads I think quite nice actually onto your podcast.

Michala:

Yeah, right, so Lisa has the most amazing podcast, by the way. It's called we Built this City yeah yeah, if you get a chance, please go and listen to it. It's absolutely fabulous. She's got had some amazing guests on, but this leads quite nicely into your Manchester Salford roots. You had the chance to go and work in London, but you stayed in Manchester. What is it about Manchester that keeps you here and that you love so much?

Lisa:

Well, I think it's a sense of community. I feel here that you know, if you've got nothing, you'll get a hand, a handout and you'll get help. And if you've got something, you'll also get a handout and you'll get help, because people want to see you well, so you want to see you do well. So I don't know. I mean community was everything to me growing up, felt incredibly loved, supported, got amazing memories of being a kid in Salford and you know I have fulfilled my love of travel. I mean, I've travelled a lot as a student and I've travelled a lot in my adult life. But, yeah, something keeps bringing me back home and Manchester has been so good to me and good to my family that I feel it is my family here.

Michala:

Talk to me about growing up. What was it like growing up for you in Salford? For those that don't know Salford, how would you describe it for our American audience?

Lisa:

Well so salt of the earth, if that's an expression that goes across the pond Community all day long. Everyone was your uncle or your auntie whether they were or not Related or not.

Lisa:

Uncle Arthur, auntie Beryl, and yeah, I mean literally the back doors were open and if you needed it regularly people would borrow a cup of sugar or some butter, or my mum was a bit of a snob, I think she saw herself, so she didn't like the door open. We had to have our door closed so people had to knock Because otherwise, like you would just be in a house and people would just walk into your house. Yeah, but you know we had I don't know, we just had an amazing childhood. I live two doors from the school that I went to, so I set up my business from being really young, just like selling stuff and flogging stuff to school. As the parents came past table sales, uncle Arthur grew lettuces and he gave me the ones that weren't he didn't want to eat and I made lettuce butties and flogged them. So it's a really loving, wonderful, warm community where everyone looks out for each other.

Michala:

Should we delve into your family?

Lisa:

tree yes, please.

Michala:

Are you ready? I thought normally I would start on your dad's side, your paternal side, but I thought, should we start on your mum's side? And there is a reason for this. Do you want to tell me about May your grandmother Do?

Lisa:

you want to tell me about May, your grandmother. So May Mansfield, married to Jim Mansfield, james, who we never called Gran and Grandad because they, for the early part of my life they were living in Bahrain. My grandad, jim, was one of the first British engineers in Bahrain. He went out having no idea where he was going. So it was May and Jim. They didn't want us to call them Gran and Grandad and it was only really she just made to us. But then I kind of knew that she'd been adopted. But then we never, back in the day, you never ask questions. I know my mum didn't ever ask any questions, so we knew. So I still don't know if she was named May after she was adopted or whether that was a name before. What I will tell you is that May was the most incredible woman. She was so vibrant, so full of life and she actually, bless her, died when she had a heart attack, dancing around the living room wow, yeah and she wasn't very old and it broke my heart.

Lisa:

I think I was 21. And even though we'd not had our whole childhood with her because they came back to the UK probably when I was about 11 or 12. Yeah, she was an amazing woman, but we just don't know any of her background at all.

Michala:

So because she was adopted and because she was born in 1916, she was born at a time before adoption was legalised, so adoption wasn't legalised until 1926, which means that we don't have the records that we have sort of post-1926. So the only way I could find out anything else about May was through DNA, and your mum didn't. She took a DNA test, which is quite funny. I imagine getting a spit in the tube.

Lisa:

Oh, my God, honestly.

Michala:

Yes, but she did, and the reason that we got your mum to do it is because obviously she is closer to May because it's her mum, so the DNA would be stronger. I know you've taken a test. We're going to go through your results as well today. So May, as I said, was born in 1916. The first record that I have for May paper record that I found was her on the 1921 census and on that census she's living with Albert, which is her adopted dad. I'm sure she just thought of him as her father and May. Would you like to see that record? Yes, please. So this is the 1921 census. They are living in Salford and I don't know if you can make any of that out. I always have to apologise, lisa, for the handwriting. It's beautiful but it's quite hard to read.

Lisa:

Just says Manchester Lane. And then personal description bacon rolling. So that's his job, wow. And then employment Seaman Meads, manchester, warehouse. Place of work, george Hall, manchester, bacon rolling. I wonder what that literally means, fabulous. And then we've got may park wife. So may's mum was called may, yeah, 36 and six months, um, married housewife and she was at home at the time of the census. So then there's other, this other, okay. So there's Edward Pankhurst, who's a boarder in the house, who's a window cleaner, alfred Edwards, who was another boarder, motor driver. And then May Park, who was four years nine months. And then what's it say? It says single crossed out. And then birth. Let me have a look.

Michala:

So yeah go on so. So at the bottom is your grandmother, may. Yeah, she is four years old and nine months at the time of the census. Um, she's a female. Both parents are alive. So this is the first census that actually recognizes if a child is an orphan or if a parent's died. Okay, so both parents are alive. Uh, she was born birch street, manchester, but we know, because I've tried to find her birth certificate, that she wasn't born on Birch Street.

Michala:

So what a job this was. And I think we met up, didn't we? Halfway through the research, when we're in a garden centre, yes, and you said to me how am I getting on? So your mum's obviously taking this DNA test. Yeah, what I then had to do was focus on your mum's mum's side, may's side, and have a look at all her DNA matches. That's everybody that shares DNA with your mum on that side.

Michala:

Basically, then, what we do? We put those into groups and from those groups, we're trying to look for a name. Who is it that they all share DNA with? What is that common ancestor? And, all the time, the surname that kept coming up, which I think I told you was Alsop, alsop. So I knew when I'd done the research that you were related to a couple who were born in the 1830s in Worcestershire called Alan Allsop and his wife Matilda Sheen. Looking at their ages, may would be their great grandchild Right. So I needed to look at all their children and their children and think who was old enough, who came through Manchester in 1916, who's May's mum or dad, because we didn't know at that point what side of the tree he was on. And then I got a little breakthrough and I'm going to show you this. So this is May's actual birth certificate.

Lisa:

Yeah, oh wow, so the 15th of November 1916, lloyd Street, moss Side. So that's where she was born. Yeah, she was born, yeah, may parks girl. May name and maiden surname of mother beatrice ellen. Alsop of no occupation, and then signature description residence of informants. So beatrice, also mother. So that was her mum, beatrice Ellen Allsop.

Michala:

Yeah, and if you look, it tells you where the mum lived.

Lisa:

Oh, underneath. Sorry, Fernie Hill Tewkesbury. So how on earth has May made it up to Manchester?

Michala:

May's mum, beatrice Ellen Allsop, was the daughter of Charles Allsop and Mary Ann Wardley. Daughter of Charles Alsop and Mary Ann Wardley, she was born on the 10th of December 1888 at Cambridge Farm, burt's Morton, worcestershire. After leaving school, beatrice found employment as a domestic servant. The 1911 census reveals that she had left Burt's Morton and had travelled over 114 miles north to Fairfield, derbyshire, where she was in the employment of Frank Holland Harrop, a life-assuring superintendent from Manchester. What happened to Beatrice in the next five years is not clear. However, we do know that by the summer of 1916, she was alone, pregnant and residing in Manchester.

Michala:

A search of the address where Beatrice gave birth to May reveals that 174 Lloyd Street, moss Side, was a private nursing home that catered for pregnant women. It's extremely doubtful that on Beatrice's wage she would have been able to afford a private nursing home. Now, I don't think it's a coincidence that she's called May and that Parks is her middle name. I think the couple, albert and May, must have known of this lady being pregnant, must have known of this child coming into the world. They've been married a couple of years by this point. They married in 1914. They've not got a child. So I think that she's let them call the child may after may and also put parks in the middle lane.

Lisa:

So you think it was agreed in advance of a mum actually giving birth?

Michala:

Yeah, I think so, because it's too much of a coincidence. Why would you have the middle?

Lisa:

name Park.

Michala:

There's nothing in the DNA to suggest that Albert Park is her biological father, so I don't think that's the case. I think that they knew, and you know, they wanted a child and this is how it's come about. But what's nice is that on every record from there there's no evidence whatsoever that she's even been adopted. I wouldn't have known, had. I couldn't find the birth certificate. That was the first clue. But obviously then you told me, didn't you, that she'd been adopted, and I know that May was always said. That was the first clue, but obviously then you told me, didn't you, that she'd been adopted.

Lisa:

And I know that May always said that she was loved by her mum and dad. I mean, she had a wonderful childhood, so that's obviously indicative of how they felt about her.

Michala:

How will your mum react when you say we've found.

Lisa:

I think she'll be absolutely fascinated because, it was to know, none of us had the idea, it was just never discussed.

Michala:

Yeah, we're going to keep going down the Allsop line now, if that's all right, Okay, sure yeah.

Michala:

So, as I mentioned to you right at the beginning, I knew from the DNA that you are descended from Alan Allsop and Matilda Sheen, which you are. Alan Alsop and Matilda Sheen, which you are. We've mentioned that already that Beatrice's. You've gone through the family tree and mentioned that Beatrice's dad, who is your great great grandfather, is a guy called Charles Stephen Alsop. He was born on the 4th of March 1866. In 1888, he marries your greatgreat-grandmother and I have their marriage certificate if you would like to see it from 1888.

Michala:

So I'm just going to pass you that over. I don't know if you can make any of that out.

Lisa:

So on the 30th October 1888, charles Allsop married Anne Mary Wardley gosh, he's only, he was 22, she is 21, he was a labourer, um, and they're both living, so they're in in Worcester. And then father's name and surname, so Alan Allsop. And then that's Enoch. Oh, enoch, enoch Wardley that's an unusual name labourer and farmer. Would you like to see a picture of them? Oh my gosh, yes, I really would. I thought they were just like these. They're just generally. Oh, wow, so who's that? That's Charles, charles. So that's my great, great, yes, granddad. Wow, look at him and his suit on a deck chair in the middle of a field. That's amazing. Oh my god, I'm not going to know that's and then would you like to see go on?

Michala:

I'll take that one. Who's this? Then, so this is his wife. This is mary ann wardley. Thank you, go on, I'll take that one.

Lisa:

Thank you, Mary Ann. Wow, what an outfit. I mean gosh, that's actually incredible.

Michala:

I'm going to keep going back if that's okay. We're going to keep cracking on. So by 1911, the couple had given birth to nine children, with two sadly dying before they reached adulthood. Charles died. So this given birth to nine children, with two sadly dying before they reached adulthood. Charles died. So this is charles. Charles died in 1929. His parents, as we've already mentioned, are alan alsop and matilda sheen. Matilda sheen would be your great, great, great grandmother, and that is her. No way. Yeah, do you want to have a look?

Lisa:

Yeah, oh my gosh, Wow, I mean, she's stylish, she is, isn't she Really stylish? That's incredible.

Michala:

Thank you very much. She's got a nice face. She has got a friendly face. She much got a nice face. She has got. She's got a friendly face.

Lisa:

Great grandma, great great grandma. Not so much she looks quite stern that's more like I would think of me.

Michala:

Yeah, now I've managed to trace the all stops all the way back to the 18th century and they remain in the Worcestershire area, so they don't really move. Matilda Sheen's parents, who we've looked at here, would be your four times great-grandparents. They are Joseph Sheen and Charlotte Fine Joseph. He was a farm labourer. On the 1861 census the family are living in Worcestershire. On the census61 census the family are living in Worcestershire. On the census is Joseph, charlotte, daughters Winifred and Selina Sheen. I quite like that name?

Lisa:

It's a nice name, and how do you spell?

Michala:

Sheen. How's that spelled? S-h-e-n, s-h-e-n, s-h-e N? Yeah, now, a month after this census was taken, I find another record that relates to the Sheen family, which I'm going to show you now. So this is from June of 1861.

Lisa:

Oh, my goodness me, where am I? So I'm looking, wow, I'm gone. Feel free to zoom in when? So this is, oh, wow, districts of New York, port of New York. So this is a ship from Liverpool to New York, wow.

Michala:

On the 16th of May 1861, lisa's four-times great-grandparents, joseph Sheen and Charlotte Vine, boarded the Monarch of the Sea in Liverpool, bound for New York. They were part of a determined group of Mormons leaving behind their lives in Britain chasing the promise of a fresh start in the rugged landscape of Utah. The Monarch of the Sea was old and weathered, unfit for the storms that would soon batter it. Remarkably, it survived the journey to New York, though it was doomed to sink on its return voyage. Packed into steerage, the cheapest and most crowded part of the ship, joseph and Charlotte endured a gruelling 34-day voyage. The grim reality of sea travel would claim nine lives along the way. When the couple finally set foot in New York on the 19th of June 1861, their journey had only just begun.

Michala:

The trek from New York to Utah was long, perilous and shadowed by the American Civil War. From New York, the group quietly travelled up the Hudson River to Albany and then boarded a train to Omaha, nebraska. Silence was their shield as they passed through a nation divided by war with Mormon settlers, cautious to avoid drawing any unwanted attention. On the 1st of July 1861, the group reached Florence, nebraska, the final staging ground for their overland journey. They rested for five days, receiving wagons and oxen to carry them across the harsh plains. Then, on the 7th of July, their ten-week journey to Salt Lake City began. The path ahead was unforgiving. Exhaustion, extreme weather and illness stalked their every step. Fires swept through the plains, destroying the grass that oxen needed for survival. Rumours of soldiers sent to stop Mormon settlers and encounters with hostile native tribes only added to the tension.

Michala:

For five weeks, joseph and Charlotte trudged through the unrelenting wilderness of Nebraska, finally arriving at Fort Laramie, wyoming their first trading post. But tragedy struck on the 12th of August 1861. In the shadow of Fort Laramie's rugged frontier, charlotte fell ill and passed away, leaving Joseph to carry on without her. Heartbroken but resolute Joseph continued west with the convoy. The group navigated the treacherous Rocky Mountains, passing through Fort Bridger by the end of August. On the 2nd of September 1861, after months of hardship, joseph and the Mormon pioneers finally reached Salt Lake City. Joseph settles in Salt Lake City and in 1862 he remarries a lady called Catherine McGregor McNair. We do know that he does briefly return to the UK for a visit and I have him on the 1971 census. He's living with your great great grandparents in Worcestershire. But what's quite funny, on the record he's put he's a widower. So he's basically said that his second wife has died. But that's not quite the case. She's still very much alive. But she has written a memoir.

Lisa:

No.

Michala:

And in her memoir she states that Joseph was a gambler and when her son took over her possessions, he left. Yeah, he left her.

Lisa:

No.

Michala:

High and dry. Wow. So we know that he comes back over here for a short time, but then he does go back over to Utah. He dies in Utah in 1883.

Michala:

Joseph and Charlotte Sheen weren't the first in Lisa's family to make the perilous journey from Worcestershire to Utah. Family to make the perilous journey from Worcestershire to Utah. Five years earlier, in 1856, joseph's brother, james Sheen, along with his wife Maria and their children, set out on the same path. James's journey was funded by the Perpetual Emigrating Fund, the PEF, a lifeline for impoverished Mormon converts desperate to join their fellow believers in Utah. The PEF offered financial assistance for the journey, with the promise that settlers would repay the loan once they had established themselves in their new home.

Michala:

James and his family embarked on their journey under the watchful leadership of Edmund Ellsworth, brigham Young's son-in-law, who personally escorted the group from Liverpool on board the ship Enoch Train. On board were 534 Mormon immigrants, all part of a bold new experiment, the Handcart Plan, brigham Young's daring idea to reduce travel costs. Instead of relying on expensive wagons and oxen, the immigrants would pull two-wheeled wooden handcarts loaded with their belongings. Each person was permitted just £17 of luggage, a weight limit that stripped their possessions to the bare essentials. The Enoch train delivered its passengers to Boston, where they continued their journey by train to Iowa.

Michala:

Once in Iowa, the group waited a gruelling month for their hand carts to be built. For their hand carts to be built, on the 21st of September 1856, after months of arduous travel, james and his family camped at Fort Bridger, wyoming, a vital waypoint on the Mormon Trail. 26th of September 1856, james and his children finally reached Utah with the rest of the surviving members of the convoy. Waiting to greet them was Brigham Young, himself accompanied by a welcoming committee offering fresh melons as a gesture of relief and hope to the weary travellers. For James, however, the journey's toll was too great. Just three days after arriving in Utah, he succumbed to exhaustion. So when you look at the Mormon pioneers, your family were part of the Mormon pioneers.

Lisa:

Are you joking? That's insane. I've seen Book of Mormon about half a dozen times, have you? I wonder why we keep going to see it. That's incredible.

Michala:

How does that make you feel knowing that your ancestors that you knew nothing about, by the way, before you walked in this room were some of the early settlers Mormon settlers in Utah Just mind-blowing, yeah, yeah, absolutely incredible.

Lisa:

And to think you know it would have taken so much courage and bravery, you know, back in the day, to say I'm going to go and cross to the side of the world, not knowing what is there for you, but must be driven either by I don't know what means that seeking a better life or I don't know what their economic circumstances were back were like back in the day, but also maybe just a sense of adventure. And that sense of adventure is like really alive in our family. And look at May and jim. I mean may with jim, my granddad was the first british engineer in america working on the american oil refineries, and may followed him and actually left my mum and my auntie shirley when they were young, only for a year or so.

Lisa:

With with um gran, who was their grandma, and that trip, I think, took three months on a boat to get to bahrain. They didn't even know where it was um, and I've got photographs of may out in in bahrain and she was the center of the universe. It out there she was. You know she was she. She created a community out there on the american camp. Yeah, so I do feel that, you know, I feel we have wanderlust in our family.

Michala:

I was going to say that search for something else. And I can say this you know, over here, for me I think it definitely was. They wanted a better life. They were agricultural workers. Agricultural labourers you are totally dependent on your having a good summer whether you would survive that year or not or whether you'd end up in a workhouse. So you know, I think that they were for me.

Lisa:

They definitely wanted that better life, but that runs through. Yeah, that definitely. I mean look at May and Jim and May was a real. I know that Jim would never have done that without may saying go for it. That's because they had nothing you know may and jim had nothing and she encouraged him to go to bahrain and create a better life for for them and for my mum and my auntie shirley and he. You know they definitely did that amazing um, so you have.

Michala:

By the way, and I must say thank you to john and leslie, who are your ancestors, who share dna with you. They are distant cousins. They have done extensive research on the mormon side of your family tree and they've been great help and they have provided us with some of these images. That is the ship, by the way, that your ancestors traveled on to get to new york from liverpool that's amazing I'm gonna move on to your dad's side, is that all right?

Michala:

so your paternal grandparents then are thomas william murray and ann Annie Wordsworth, the ringer bell yes yeah, what can you tell us?

Lisa:

about your so well. I never knew Tom because Tom died when my dad was 18 I think, um, and it was sad because dad hadn't had a great relationship with his dad. But just as he was starting to build that, they started to go fishing and stuff together and Tom died not long after that. My Nana, annie Wordsworth very, very close, she was like, oh my God, amazing, and that's, she's a musician and she was, she was. She works at Kendall's in Manchester. She's one of the first seamstresses in in in Manchester and so, yeah, an incredible woman. But I don't again. I know that she had a lovely family life, but I don't know much about Tom's side of the family.

Michala:

Well, should we unpick it? Should we go? Should we go through it? So Thomas William Murray Tom, as you've actually known him was born on the 13th of January 1907. He is the son of Thomas William Murray senior. So they they obviously kept the name and Alice Ann Kelly, who would be your great-grandparents. Alice Ann Kelly she was born in 1818, salford. She was baptised on the 25th of July 1880, again at St Bartholomew's Church. Everybody seems to go through that church in your family. Her parents are John Kelly and Hannah Pearson.

Michala:

John Kelly was born, believe it or not, in Canada and he came over here. He settled in London and then moved up north. He was in the military for a while, but what's interesting about him to me is he was a trade union guy through and through, and on the 1891 census he's listed as the general secretary to the Manchester and Salford Carters Union and he was one of the founding members of that trade union. It did amalgamate later on, but throughout his life he was a carter and wanted better conditions and better pay for carters, and it didn't necessarily mean less hours. In fact, at one point in his history he's actually fighting for their hours not to be cut just because they're going to lose money so they could get overtime. Yeah, basically, they were going to lose money, but he was a real pioneer and a real fighter for the working class men of Salford trying to get the Carters better working conditions.

Michala:

Wow, and I see that in you, because I, you know, I've read. Uh, well, in fact, you sent me, didn't you, before we did the podcast, you sent me a list of your values, yeah, and your core values that are so central, aren't they, to you and your business, and they're just amazing, um, and I see that wanting something better for ordinary people in you. That's amazing. That's incredible. Now, I'm conscious of time and I am going to wrap this up, because I've got three minutes, and I just want to go through your DNA. Okay, and we've got Nina here, who's your daughter, who I'm going to see if any of these traits went true. She's probably going to say no. So you are 53% England and Northwestern Europe. This is your ethnicity breakdown. You are 38% Ireland. You are 8% Scotland and 1% the Netherlands. The 38% Ireland is on your dad's side. What I want to do now, though, is just quickly have a look at your traits. So caffeine intake, oh God. So your DNA suggests that you are likely to drink a lot more caffeine than average. Is this true?

Lisa:

Yes, Yep, I think we're all. That's in all our traits. I reckon in the family, yeah.

Michala:

Competitiveness. It says you are likely to be competitive. Desire to succeed. You are likely motivated by success. So that's at the highest one, the desire to succeed. It says and I can't really see from here, you are unlikely to have any freckles. Yeah, I don't think I've got any. No, I can't see that you've got any freckles um. It's got loads really loads risk taking. Your dna suggests that you are a risk taker yeah before you go, I have to ask you one question.

Michala:

If you can invite anybody from your family tree for dinner tonight, who would it be, and why and what would you cook them?

Lisa:

my goodness me, um, I would have the carter activist person, john john john kelly, john kelly at the table and what would I cook him? I would art direct something on a plate rather than cook. I love it. Good old beans on toast. Yeah, that is fascinating. I think the actual, the activism and the kind of community building is amazing. And also the fact that we've got, you know, ancestors in Utah and America and they and they, you know that wanderlust piece and wanting to go and find a better life is just runs through our whole family. That's incredible. Thank you so much. Thank you, lisa.

Michala:

Thank you so that is it for this week's podcast. A huge, huge thank you to my brilliant guest, lisa morton, and a massive thank you to you guys for listening or watching. I really hope you enjoyed it. If you would like any aspect of historical research undertaken, you can contact me via. My website is wwwmichaelahumecom, or on social media at Dr Michaela Hume. Have a great week researching. See you soon.