Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast

S3 Ep7: A lot of Darwen and a tiny bit of Corfu: Unearthing the Past with Adidas Spezial's Gary Aspden

• Dr Michala Hulme • Season 3 • Episode 7

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Fashion aficionados and history buffs alike, get ready to be inspired by the compelling journey of Gary Aspden, the creative force behind Adidas Spezial. 
Known for redefining contemporary sportswear, Gary takes us on a heartfelt journey through his deep connections to community, identity, and storytelling. 

In true Gary Aspden style, he reflects on how his upbringing in Darwen and Blackburn influenced his love for style, from childhood memories of hand-me-down toys to his first real awakening to fashion at a local disco. These moments laid the foundation for his ability to tell authentic stories through his iconic designs.

With humour, heart, and fascinating historical insights, this episode promises to resonate with anyone who’s ever wondered how their roots shape their identity. Whether you’re a genealogy enthusiast or a fan of Gary’s groundbreaking work in fashion, this conversation offers something for everyone.

Tune in for an unforgettable journey into the past with one of the coolest figures in fashion—and find out why Darwen might just be your next must-visit destination.


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Michala:

Hello, I'm Dr Michala Hume and welcome back to Unearth the Past, a family history and genealogy podcast that delves into the lives of interesting people. On today's episode, I'm excited to welcome Gary Aspden, a visionary in the world of fashion and a true cultural pioneer. He even has a road named after him. Best known as the mastermind behind Adidas Speciale, gary has redefined contemporary sportswear. His collections have become a firm favourite among cultural icons such as the Gallagher Brothers, jurgen Klopp, pet Shop Boys, goldie, the Sex Pistols, stephen Graham, idris Elba. I could go on and on and on. Hailing from Darwin in the northwest of England, gary's journey is one of deep connections to community identity and storytelling. So it's my pleasure to introduce the king of cool. So it's my pleasure to introduce the king of cool, gary Astin. Welcome to the podcast, gary. Thank you so much, mate, for coming on my podcast.

Gary:

Thank you.

Michala:

I really appreciate this because I know you don't do many podcasts.

Gary:

I get asked to do a few, but it's yeah, I'm yeah, I don't do that many. No.

Michala:

So when I messaged you and said do you fancy looking into your family history? And I know you'd already sort of looked into it a bit yourself, hadn't you what?

Gary:

was it that you thought, yeah, I quite fancy doing that. A few years ago, I realised that my parents were getting older and I started to ask them questions about my family and I found out some pretty interesting stuff from them. And my dad passed away in 2020 and my mum's? She's in a care home in Blackburn, but her memory's starting to go now and you realise that once you know my family are working class people once, once they're gone, they take all that information, all those stories with them. So me and my girlfriend Joanne went on Ancestrycom, but she had a lot more patience for it than I did.

Michala:

She's a very good, isn't she, Joanne? You've told me about her. She's gone quite far back.

Gary:

She had a good day around with it. I had a bit of information but I kind of Kept kind of it in Blanks of it really, and then kind of forgot about it. And then out of the blue, I got a message from you saying Would I be interested in doing that? And I thought actually I I would, yeah, yeah. So because apparently you're good at finding these things out.

Michala:

Finding people. But before we delve into it, let's just let me ask you a couple of questions then. Just about you, Gary. So you are phenomenally successful at what you do. You are wearing your own brand today, which I absolutely love, Thank you. I love that jacket. Thank you. You saw your collab with CP Company. How did it start for you? So I know Blackburn, but half of our audience is American, right, Right, okay. So do you want to describe what Blackburn is like? What was it like growing up in Blackburn? To our America?

Gary:

to uh well, I grew up in a town called Darwin, which neighbors Blackburn it's four miles outside of Blackburn and uh, blackburn in the 19th century was the epicenter of the textile industry in the world, basically and um, so it was a very working class area. But then, by the same token, in 19th century the real estate in Blackburn was the most expensive in the country because you had these kind of cotton barons who ran the mills there. And it's just got. You know that part of Lancashire has just got such a rich history. There was the cotton famine, where the working class people refused to work with cotton that had come from slave trade. Hence why you have Lincoln Square in Manchester with the statue of Abraham Lincoln, because Abraham Lincoln wrote to the mill workers of Lancashire who went hungry to stand by the principles.

Michala:

And they literally did. They were literally starving, but they did what they thought was right.

Gary:

Yeah, they were stoic about it. They were like you know, this is what we believe and we're not going to change that. And so you know, I'm quite proud of my roots. I know a little bit about my roots in Darwin, I know, you know, my granddad really struggled in the 1930s, during the recession in the 30s, and he got a job as a bin man. And once he got that job as a bin man, he was like I'm going to do everything I can to keep hold of this job. And he was so, so growing up like my dad was an only child and my granddad's house was where I spent a lot of my childhood was almost like it had been frozen in time in a way. You know they had an outside toilet frozen in time in a way.

Gary:

You know, they had an outside toilet, they had a bucket in the corner of the room that people would urinate into and there's a kind of gas fire with two rocking chairs, black and white television, but you know, those kind of old habits of you know coming from poverty kind of were still there.

Gary:

So you know, we always had broken biscuits from the market, we always had fruit that had just gone slightly out of date, you know, and a lot of the things that we, the toys that we had at my granddad's house, like the drafts board I don't know if you'd call that a toy, but you know the drafts board and the cards had come out of people's bins in Whitehall in Darwin, because the wealthy people who lived up in Whitehall would throw stuff out and the bin men back then would find all kinds of stuff in there. So I kind of, you know, I saw the real kind of tail end of that and I know that my dad grew up in, you know, real poverty, I guess you know, and my mum's side of the family are from Blackburn and my dad's side are from Darwin, but I was born and raised in Darwin.

Michala:

Is there a slight rivalry between Blackburn and Darwin? And I don't know this, but I know.

Gary:

Yes, there is, there is, but they fall under the same council but they have different MPs. But when I was growing up in Darwin, it had its own law courts, it had its own newspaper, it was quite independent of Blackburn and then the two got kind of put together. But Darwiners are very much like we are Darwin, we're not Blackburn, and so they're only four miles apart, but they're quite different.

Gary:

But, growing up it was. You know it's a working class area really and there was a handful of factory employers. The ambition for a lot of people as kids would be to get a job working at either ICI or Crown Paints, because you know if you got a job there you'd get shift work and working there you'd be able to afford a family holiday and a terraced house. But it's very kind of you know Darwin's, you know there's a lot of terraced houses there but there's also a really beautiful countryside that surrounds it. And you know I have a real fondness for the place and that fondness has grown as I've got older.

Gary:

Really, I think that when I talk about Blackburn and Darwin in the 19th century it was also the birthplace of professional football. It was or for your American listeners, soccer, but it was. So it was a bit. You know, the first ever professional football player played for Darwin FC, a Scottish player called Souter, and he ended up becoming the landlord of the Millstone pub where I used to drink. But he left Darwin FC to go and play for Blackburn Rovers. All those northern mill towns are at the very foundation of the football league.

Michala:

Would you say your upbringing and Darwin and Blackburn has inspired some of your collections. 100% 100%.

Gary:

Yeah, and Darwin and Blackburn has inspired some of your collections 100%, yeah, 100%, yeah.

Gary:

I, you know. The thing about growing up was it was very much. It's a story I've told many times. I had a mate, paul Ryder it was called. Paul Ryder said to me oh, I'm going up to Bogart's, which is a local disco, on a Thursday, thursday night, and I was really excited about the fact he'd said come up to Bogart's, because that was where the cool kids went.

Gary:

And I basically had a brother who was four years older than me. My dad was always working overtime, my mum worked three jobs she worked on the market, she worked a fruit machine wholesalers and she also worked in a pub. And so growing up I didn't see a lot of my mum and dad. So my brother became like my surrogate dad in a way. So I just used to follow him and his mates around everywhere and I was always the scrawny kid on the end where when they were picking the football teams they'd be like you know, because I was a lot younger and a lot smaller than them, or you have him, you know, I was always the last one to get picked because I was young. So I always hung around with like my brother and his mates who were older, but it was kind of. It was pretty rough and ready growing up. You know it felt like the two things you were measured on were how good you were at football and how good you were at fighting really. And you know I didn't really think about fashion or any of that.

Gary:

But one night I go round to Paul Ryder's house to go to Bogarts and knock on the door. He comes to the door and he looks me up and down and said no, you can't come out with me looking like that. I said what do you mean? He went them jeans are fleurs. We don't wear jeans like that, we wear tight jeans. I had no idea what he was talking about. So he said go on, get your mum to take your jeans in. Come Bogarts wheels. Go on. Said to my mum, can you take my jeans in? She was like what are you talking about? I haven't got a sewing machine, don't be so ridiculous. So I ended up sat in watching Top of the Pops instead of going to Bogarts, of going to Bogarts.

Gary:

But that that was the first time I can really remember becoming aware of what fashion was. But after that I thought there's no way I'm getting knocked back off anybody again. So sort of. I took an interest in clothes and growing up there was, like you know, when I first got into clothes it was it was Adidas trainers, jeans, adidas rain jackets, adidas t-shirts, fred perry t-shirts, slasinger sweaters, and then onto pringle jumpers and lylan scott and all the cool stuff and then yeah, and then feel and tashini and and then into all the designer stuff or money and boss and all that stuff you know.

Gary:

So I kind of grew up through that. So it was kind of, you know, it's like the ethics of mod in a way. It's like, you know, clean living under difficult conditions. It was all about how you presented yourself and what you look like and you kind of you were always kind of moving with whatever you know of. You were always kind of moving with whatever you know. Look was, you know, whether it was hairstyles or trainers or jeans or you know. So it went from tight jeans to semi-fleurs, to bell bottoms, to baggy jeans, to tapered jeans, to 501s. You know, it was just constantly changing and evolving. So I think that upbringing in many ways informs what I do for a living. Now. You know I did go and get a formal education as a mature student. I studied in Preston. But I think those experiences growing up, being in the right places at the right times gave me a kind of an instinct for it.

Michala:

Well, I'm going to start by delving into your family tree now, if that's all right okay so I have um got a copy here of your family tree which you can refer to at any point. I've I've actually gone quite a bit further back than this, right, but this is just the sort of bread and butter bits. Okay, feel free to grab that and hold it whenever you want. Now, normally, when I do this, I start on your paternal side, your dad's side, but I thought just to shake it up a bit today. We start on your mum's side all right with you.

Michala:

It's cool. So, uh, your mum is lillian hargreaves. Yes, um, her mum, her mum was Elizabeth Whittaker, which is your grandmother. Yeah, and she was born in 1910 in Blackburn. Yeah, I found a record for your grandmother just before the war and that's in 1939, and she appears on the 1939 register. Would you like to have a look?

Gary:

Yeah, I'd love to.

Michala:

She's just there. So this is a register. It's like a census record. It's taken just before the war in 1939.

Gary:

So James R Greaves, elizabeth R Greaves, jean R Greaves, marion R Greaves, lillian Ashton, so it goes on to their names. After they've has it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Michala:

And if you look on the top left, it should tell you what road they lived on Top left, right at the top of the page.

Gary:

Oh, right, at the top of the page.

Michala:

Brewery.

Gary:

Street, brewery Street, yeah, yeah.

Michala:

So by 1939, then your grandmother was married to your grandfather.

Gary:

But she was with someone prior to that.

Michala:

Yes, I'm going to get to that. So she was married to your grandfather, james Hargreaves. They married in 1937 at the local registry office, but this was not her first marriage, as you've rightly pointed out. In 1930, 20-year-old Elizabeth married William Andrews at St Luke and St Philip's Church in Blackburn In 1931, they welcomed a daughter, but sadly, three years later William passes away. I've got his death certificate if you'd like to see it.

Gary:

I'd love to see it, because this was the thing I found out about. My mum has two sisters, right, okay, but her oldest sister is Well not sorry, they're both her oldest sisters. Her oldest sister is her half-sister.

Michala:

Yes, that's right.

Gary:

So she's William Andrews' daughter.

Michala:

So that's Marion. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know if you can make any of it out 20th of December 1934, 21 K Street, he died.

Gary:

Died William Andrews, 25 years old, second man on, I think that's a motor lorry, motor lorry for General Davis. Yeah, exhaustion, tubercular, obsessive hip, elizabeth Andrews. So that's my grandmother.

Gary:

Widow of deceased, present at the death in 21 K Street, Blackburn. That's interesting because I know a little bit about this, because I found this out when I started to question my mother about my background. My Auntie Marion and my Auntie Jean, I thought were just my mum's sisters. I didn't know that Auntie Marion was a half-sister, Right OK, I didn't know anything about William Andrews until a few years back.

Michala:

Yeah.

Gary:

But what happened to William Andrews? Was he got injured at work? Right, but what happened to William Andrews? Was he got injured at work and because I don't think the National Health Service was around at that point.

Gary:

So he couldn't get the health care and he ended up passing away. So my grandmother was left with the baby. But that's when my grandmother started to attend the local spiritualist church, right. So apparently a lot of working class people in the early 20th century got involved with the spiritualist church because for one there was no health care and for two there were wars and it was always the working class people that were sent off as cannon fodder. So there were a lot of people that were grief stricken at that time and the spiritualist church offered kind of some solace to them, I guess. So the story goes that my grandmother went there and a medium told my grandmother that she was going to meet the love of her life and he was going to be sat underneath a portrait. And I found out that she had a brother who passed away. I think it's called. Might have been Edwards.

Michala:

Right, yeah.

Gary:

He died in his early 40s. I believe this is what you know. You might know better than I do, but one night her brother comes home with his mate, james Jimmy. Jimmy plonks himself down the chair and there's a portrait of I think it's my great-grandfather on the wall above him and apparently it was love at first sight for those two and they were together until jimmy passed away yeah yeah, so they're.

Gary:

Um, yeah, so, but that. But what happened was the that the medium then told my grandmother that the lawyer she was using because he was trying to get some compensation for losing her husband from the owners of this mail lawyer, wherever it was that he worked was that the lawyer she was using was in league with them. With them, yeah. And so she became like she was completely sold on spiritualist church.

Michala:

I'm going to stick with Elizabeth, if that's all right. Please, we're going to go further back. So Elizabeth is the daughter of Samuel Whittaker and Ellen Riley, who were your great-grandparents. Do their names ring a bell.

Gary:

Well, my mum always talks about the Rileys and the Moonies, about they're the Irish, we're going to come to them.

Michala:

Yeah, so the Moonies, but they're the.

Gary:

Irish, we're going to come to them. Yeah, so the Moonies are on my granddad's side.

Michala:

That's right.

Gary:

The Riley's are on my grandmother's side.

Michala:

Yep. So I managed to find the family in 1921. That's just after World War I and they're living at 6 South West Street and that's in Blackburn. I also have your great-grandparents' marriage certificate, if you would like to see it.

Gary:

So Samuel Whittaker and Ellen Riley were married on December 27th 1909, two days after Christmas, at the ages of 23 and 18. And he was an iron turner 23 and 18. And he was an iron turner 21 Pink Street. And Ellen Rye lived on 20 Clayton Street. Clayton Street's not a million miles from Nabend.

Michala:

Right, okay, and very close to where the Spiritualist Church that I'm talking to. I love that you know these places.

Gary:

Yeah, so all that kind of little that area of Blackburn is like you know. Yeah, so all that kind of little that area of Blackburn is, like you know, like Montague Street is where, yeah, where I spent a lot of time as a child. Father's name so it was William Whittaker and John Joseph Riley, and he was a labourer and John Joseph Riley was a boilermaker, a boilerm maker. Yeah, some job isn't?

Michala:

it Probably quite a dangerous job, to be fair, making boilers. I imagine I'm going to keep going back. So Samuel Whittaker, then, who was your great-grandfather? He was born in 1886. And I have his birth certificate, which I'm going to show you now. So I don't know if you can make that out, but that is your great grandfather's birth certificate.

Gary:

Burden Street, blackburn. Samuel, and his father's, william Whittaker, and the name of Made, the name of his mother, elizabeth Rebecca Whittaker, formerly Barnes Barnes, okay, rancour. Profession of father Butcher Butcher. Butcher. That's interesting because my mum worked on a butcher's stall for a while.

Michala:

Did she?

Gary:

Yeah, when I was a kid, I spent a lot of time after school, after primary school, go down and sit on the butcher's stall. So yeah, that's one that my mum did for a while in Darwin Market. So yeah, that's one that my mum did for a while in Darwin Market. So, Elizabeth Rebecca Whittaker, mother, 24 Garden Street, 27th of April 1886,. This was registered.

Michala:

And that's the registrar's signature. Thank you very much. So I managed to find the family after Samuel's born on the census record, so I have them on the 1901 census and I'm just going to show you that now. And I want you to actually look at the census. Is great, it's taken every 10 years. The first census we have access to is 1841. The last census we have access to is 1921. Okay, so we've got them every 10 years. I want you to have a look, though, at where some of your ancestors were born.

Gary:

Okay.

Michala:

So here you go?

Gary:

William Whittaker, elizabeth, rebecca Bonds, samuel, martha, arthur, harry, lillian Albert. So that's all the same family.

Michala:

That's all the same family. So Samuel is your great-grandfather, and then William and Elizabeth Rebecca. That's your great-great-grandparents.

Gary:

So the name Lillian that my mother got probably came from here. Yeah so there was a Lillian prior to my mum, lillian. There was that's interesting?

Michala:

Now, if you scroll across, I know that if we cut you literally, you are Lancashire born and bred, but I want you to have a look at where Elizabeth Rebecca is from.

Gary:

Yarmouth, norfolk. That's correct.

Michala:

That's interesting and we're going to pick up her story now, if that's alright? Yeah, I thought we'd. I purposely thought I'm going to start here, so this is my great, great great, great grandmother. So this is your great, great grandmother.

Gary:

Right, okay.

Michala:

So this is Samuel's mum. Do you remember? On his birth certificate it said she was called Elizabeth Rebecca Barnes.

Gary:

Right.

Michala:

So this is Samuel's mum, so this is your great, great grandmother, right okay, yeah, so this is.

Michala:

Samuel's mum. So this is your great-great-grandmother, right, okay, yeah, so let's unpack her side then. So she was born on the 13th of September 1860, in Great Yarmouth. Like her older sisters, matilda and Louisa, elizabeth went into domestic service Sometime before 1881, she took the bold step to leave Great Yarmouth and head north to Blackburn, and it must have been a big shock going from Great Yarmouth to, you know, the cotton industrial northwest. She managed to secure employment before she got here as a domestic service, with a lady called Jane Furness, and she owned a pub on Bank Top in Blackburn. And it was while she was in Blackburn that she meets your great-great-grandfather, william.

Gary:

So she's working at that pub on Bank Top.

Michala:

She's a domestic servant within the pub within. Jane's pub and she obviously at some point meets William in Blackburn. I have a copy of her birth certificate if you would like to see it.

Gary:

Yeah, I'd love to. So 14th of September 1860, she was born. Name and surname of father Isaac Davis. So Isaac Barnes, barnes sorry, see how I'm writing and the name and maiden Mary Barnes. Formerly it's like Keira North.

Michala:

That's right, kernan, kernan.

Gary:

Rank or profession of father. It's like Keira North, that's right, kernan. Kernan Ranked Ord Fishing and Father Sergeant East Norfolk Militia Staff.

Michala:

So he was a staff sergeant in the East Yorkshire. Sorry, he was a staff sergeant in the East Norfolk Militia.

Gary:

So J Bne's the father, and then he's got Militia Barrack. You know what I mean. That's right. So he lived in the barracks.

Michala:

Yeah. Would, you like to know a bit more about him.

Gary:

Yeah, that's interesting.

Michala:

Did you think that you might have a Norfolk connection when you came in?

Gary:

No, not at all.

Michala:

Okay. So, as you can see then by the birth certificate, her mum was Mary Kernan and her father is Isaac Barnes. They are your three times great-grandparents, your great-great-great-grandparents, and he was a staff sergeant in the East Norfolk Militia. So Isaac, then he was born in 1816 in Westbury, wiltshire. He started working life as a weaver and at the age of 18, on the 9th of July 1832, he signs up for the 17th Regiment of the Norfolk Militia. He served in the army for over 40 years. In that time he spent at least 13 years abroad, which included three years in New South Wales and 10 and a half years in the East Indies. He started his military career as a private, which he did for 10 years before being promoted to corporal sergeant and then finally colour sergeant or staff sergeant. In 1848, he married Mary Kernan in Dover, and I have a copy of their marriage certificate from 1848 if you would like to see it. I'm hoping this will inspire a new collection, a Norfolk collection.

Gary:

I remember as a kid my family going. I know it's a great Yarmouth but I don't know if I went on that all day. I was too young to remember. I remember great Yarmouth being mentioned in our house but I don't think anybody realised.

Michala:

I'm going to show you another record now. This is a record of Isaac Barnes, who's a staff sergeant, which you'll see on here.

Gary:

So this is all the stuff that went on in the south prior to her coming to the north and then connecting with a Lancastrian, all right.

Michala:

You've got it. What I want you to do, though, I want you to look at where Mary Kernan. Obviously she's married, so she's on here as Mary Barnes where she is born, so if you scroll across, you should be able to zoom in Corfu.

Gary:

Italy. Was that? Because he was in the military there, so I've got some Italian blood. Well, you've done the dna test.

Michala:

So you now. Should we just have a quick look at your mum's dad's side? Yeah, gary's mum's father was james hargreaves, born on the 31st of december 1911. James's parents, gary's great-grandparents, are william hargreaves and Margaret Ann Mooney. I have their marriage certificate if you would like to see it. This is a paper copy to date.

Gary:

Oh, wow, king. Cotton Clothpackers and Cotton Ringspears. Yeah, it's all textiles, all textiles.

Michala:

So I managed to find the family on the 1911 census.

Michala:

They're living at 14 back king street, which is probably like a back same area. Is it same area, right? Okay, now there are two children on there that are not uh, william hargreaves, and that is because, uh, margaret has two children out of wedlock before she meets William. I want to have a quick look now at Margaret's backstory. So you probably noticed that on that marriage certificate, margaret has put that her father is John Mooney. However, I don't think that's correct. However, I don't think that's correct. The reason I don't think that's correct is because I managed to get her birth certificate and when you actually look at her birth certificate, which I know has got the right date of birth on it, there's no dad listed. What I did? I found her birth certificate. Her mum is called Bridget. There's no father listed. The address that's on the birth certificate, which you'll get, by the way, is actually the address of Bridget's brother. So I think she is pregnant and she has the child at, basically, the brother's house. So Margaret Ann Mooney is basically born out of wedlock. We don't know who her dad is.

Michala:

I managed to find Margaret Ann's mum, bridget, and she is living in Blackburn just before she gives birth to Margaret Ann, with her mum, who's also called Bridget. Her mum is from Galway in Ireland and Bridget and her brother the house she's at when she gives birth to a daughter are both from Liverpool. So they have obviously come in after the potato famine, settled in Liverpool, had Bridget, had Thomas, who's Bridget's brother, and then they have moved to Blackburn. And then they have moved to Blackburn After the birth of Margaret Ann, bridget, margaret, her mum, disappears. I don't know what happens to her. I don't know if she marries. I can't find a death threat, but she disappears. However, I do find Margaret Ann on the 1891 census, which I'm going to show you now, if that's all right. So this is Margaret Ann Mooney, which is your great-grandmother, and this is her on the 1891 census. I don't know if you can make out where she is on that census yeah, founder fourth in the bottom profession.

Gary:

I don't know what that says. Yeah, founder fourth from the bottom Profession. I don't know what that says. Pauper, pauper.

Michala:

So she's in the workhouse.

Gary:

Okay.

Michala:

So I don't know what happens to her mum, but we know that by the time she's eight years old she's in the workhouse. The next census she's working in domestic service, but on this census she's in the workhouse. I am going to quickly move on, if that's all right. Yes, of course, I'm going to now quickly fire over to your downside. So you should have that in your tree.

Michala:

If you look on the Aspen side, I research the, the astrid, right the way back. As you can see, I wasn't able to go as far back. I can only go back a few generations, and that's because you have an ancestor that was born out of wedlock, so we don't know who the dad is for that one. So I wasn't able to go any further with that and because of how DNA works, the DNA, once you're going that far back, isn't strong enough for me to say oh, it's him, yep, um. So I could only go so far back with that side of your family. Your grandfather was Albert Aspden. Yeah, yep, and I managed to get his birth certificate. He was born on the 22nd of february 1903 on pine street, which is in darwin the certificate. The certificate shows that his mother was betty wewell. I'm going to pronounce that. Okay, way well, what do you reckon? Way well, um, and his father was James Aspden.

Gary:

So he was a miner. He was in charge of safety. Apparently, he got his legs crushed in the mine and then they gave him the job in charge of safety and he was an absolute stickler for it.

Michala:

Really.

Gary:

Because he'd had a mine accident himself. But Albert is the one whose house I spent a lot of my childhood with the one that I was saying about the outside toilet didn't have a bathroom, had the rack to dry the clothes on, with the two rocking chairs. He was the bin man was.

Michala:

Albert Was Albert.

Gary:

So yeah, and then his dad, james, was the miner. Right, okay, he worked at a mine up in Odleston, just over Darwin.

Michala:

So coal mining and Darwin is definitely strong on that side of your tree. I've managed to find the family on the 1921 census. They are living at 38 Highfield Road in Darwin. Mentioned on that record are your great-grandparents, james and Betsy. Mentioned on that record are your great-grandparents, james and Betsy, and I have a copy of their marriage certificate, if you'd like that, from 1902.

Gary:

So this is James Aspden and Betsy Alice Wewell, 1902. Yeah, coal miner, and she was a weaver and she lived up in Hoddleston. Okay, and is Hoddleston?

Michala:

pretty close.

Gary:

Yeah, it's just above Darwin, it's like a little village that just sits above Darwin, the opposite side of Darwin, because Darwin's a valley, so the side of the valley I grew up on it's on the opposite side of the valley.

Michala:

Now, betsy was obviously mentioned on there. Her father is William Wewell. I've managed to trace that side of your family back to your 11 times great-grandfather, george Wewell, who was born at the end of the 16th century and in the reign of Elizabeth I. And Elizabeth I is the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. They never moved, so they literally stayed within that area for centuries, centuries. Did you expect that?

Gary:

well, no way better than Darwin is there no better than darwin um and they knew they couldn't go any higher.

Michala:

Well, that's it. Yeah, they've literally peaked, haven't they? They've peaked, they've peaked. Um and same with the astons. So I didn't manage to go as far with them, but but they didn't move. They stayed within that area or within like a sort of a two mile radius of that area. What I'm going to do quickly now, because I'm conscious of time. I want to just quickly have a look at your DNA results, ok.

Gary:

So they lived in Darwin from 1697.

Michala:

Yeah, so I got back to the end of the 16th century, so you're talking about. 1590 was how far I got back.

Gary:

And this is my, and this is way, way off line this is your 11 times. Great grandfather, george, we war, we well and then it was like generation on generation on generation on 11 generations all lived in the same part of Darwin Right.

Michala:

So your ethnicity breakdown then, are you ready? You are 63% West Midlands and North West England, which is your Darwin, your Blackburn. You are 34% Ireland, so third, and you are 3% Denmark. Did you think that?

Gary:

That's not a million miles. I't know where the denmark bit comes from, yeah, but um, yeah, so. So the bit about corfu then is probably the irish in corfu so patrick kernan on the marriage certificate, he's not got.

Michala:

He's in the army, he's got he's a tanner. So I don't quite know why he's over there. Maybe it is something to do with the military, so I'm going to quickly do traits. It is something to do with the military, so I'm going to quickly do traits. I'm going to do two traits and then we're going to go.

Gary:

So okay do you enjoy dancing I?

Michala:

do yeah Good. It says you are likely to enjoy dancing. That's in your DNA.

Gary:

I was a breaker. I was a b-boy when I was a kid.

Michala:

Were you.

Gary:

Yeah, I danced all over England.

Michala:

It says you are likely to drink a lot less caffeine than the average person. Does that mean you don't drink many cups of coffee?

Gary:

I don't drink any caffeine. Well, there you go. I haven't drunk any for over 20 years.

Michala:

Gary Aspren. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thank you.

Gary:

Gary Aspgen. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast thank you it's been fascinating.

Michala:

I've absolutely thoroughly loved having you on.

Gary:

I just love the fact that my family had five centuries worth of Darwin pretty much the same straight.

Michala:

It's great, love it, thank you so much mate cheers appreciate it so that is it for this week's show. A massive, massive thank you. Cheers appreciate it. So that is it for this week's show. A massive, massive thank you to my lovely guest, gary, for letting me unpick his family tree and for filling us in on why darwin is a place I think we all need to visit. A huge thank you, as always, to you guys. All my listeners, thank you so much, really, really appreciate it. Couldn't make this podcast without you, so thank you. If you would like any aspect of historical research undertaking, you can contact me via my website, which is wwwmckaylehuecom. Until next time, thank you.