Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast

S3 Ep5: From Sierra Leone to Salford; Unearthing the Past with actor Warren Brown

• Dr Michala Hulme • Season 3 • Episode 5

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In this week's episode of Unearth the Past, Dr. Michala Hulme delves into the fascinating ancestry of award-winning actor and two-time Thai boxing world champion, Warren Brown. From his star roles in shows such as Luther and the BBC's Ten Pound Poms, Warren takes listeners on a deeply personal journey through family histories filled with untold stories and surprises.

Discover Warren's emotional reflections on his paternal family history, a connection to a Nigeran prince and a prominent Sierra Leonean family. Along the way, Dr. Hulme unveils archival gems, from military records and death certificates to connections with unexpected relatives across the globe. Plus, you'll learn about the theatrical streak running through Warren’s lineage, connecting his family's past to his own dynamic career.

Packed with humour, heartfelt moments, and historical insights, this episode uncovers the rich, vibrant tapestry of a life story rooted in resilience, community, and discovery. Don’t miss this enthralling look at how our past shapes our present.

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Dr Michala Hulme
Warren Brown
Power of One 

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Michala :

Hello and welcome back to Unearth the Past, a podcast that delves into the lives of interesting people. With me, your host, dr Michaela Hulme. This week we are joined by one of Britain's best-loved actors. He has starred in a range of shows, from the BBC's multi-award-winning series Luther to HBO's Emmy-nominated show Strike Back. You may also know him from Hollyoaks, good Cop, the Gathering or, my personal favourite, the BBC's Ten Pound Poms. As if that's not enough, he is also a former two-times Thai boxing world champion. Ladies and gentlemen, this week we are joined by the award-winning actor Warren Brown. Warren, welcome to the podcast.

Warren:

Thank you for having me.

Michala :

Are you excited?

Warren:

Excited slash, nervous, nervous yeah.

Michala :

So shall we start, then, with your dad's side. So what did you know before this about your dad's side? So what did you know before, um, before this, about your sort of your dad's side of the tree? Did you know anything?

Warren:

not a great deal on my dad's side, um. I know a little bit on my mom's side, um, but my dad's I guess a little bit of backstory. He his mom, died when he was quite young, yeah, and he didn't have a great relationship with his father. I think it was a couple of times as I've got older that they met up and kind of nearly rekindled a relationship, but it didn't quite see it through. So I'd met, remember meeting my granddad very, very young, and then I think maybe around about 17, I think he actually came to watch one of my Thai boxing fights and then we didn't again, for whatever reason. That didn't kind of wasn't seen through.

Warren:

And then there was a period where actually me and my dad were talking and although his dad wasn't great, we were, I think it was more I was interested just to know a bit more about where we came from on my dad's side of the history. We never actually got around to doing that. And then my dad took ill quite a few years ago and then for the last kind of five, six years he's been in a home and has not been kind of fully compass mentor. So again those kind of conversations kind of weren't able to happen. And I guess then you know, you think, oh, what can I do on my own? But then when an opportunity presents itself, when an expert gets in touch, yeah yeah, so not a great deal. Like I say, I knew when we were really young my dad had a brother and a sister that we saw a little bit when we were kids, but they both passed away as well. So what are we?

Michala :

going to find out. Are you ready? So were you curious because I know years ago you took an ancestry deinator, didn't he, didn't you I? Did to find out a bit more about your ethnicity and what do you remember what that came back saying where um from I remember, not really believing it really well, just because there was a large percent of Irish, a large percent of Scottish and kind of not sure, but kind of on my dad's side.

Warren:

But then when I did another one and it came through and it was kind of very, very similar. So, okay, all right, I believe then. But you know, chatted to my mum and chatted to my uncle, who's quite well into his ancestry tree, and he can't seem to find anyone irish or scottish in there. So it doesn't seem to think there's anyone irish, scottish on my mum's side. Um, so yeah, I mean, they're obviously, they're accurate. You, you work with them a lot.

Michala :

Yeah, yeah, you have got irish in your tree.

Warren:

Yeah, yeah, you also which won't come as a shock to you have west african in your tree on your dad's side well, this, yeah, this was again one of the one of the main things is I knew that there was something, but not actually knowing specifically where okay, well, should we pick up then should we start with your dad's side, okay, so?

Michala :

so I'm going to start with your granddad and then we're going to work backwards, is that all right? So your grandfather was called Martin Percival Brown. I'm sure you knew that, martin.

Warren:

Brown.

Michala :

And your grandmother was Edith Kathleen Green, and the first document I'm going to show you is their marriage certificate. And I wondered if you can, the handwriting is terrible. If you can, the handwriting is terrible. If you can try and read it out or try and make out some of it, that'd be great.

Warren:

If you can't, don't worry okay um go on I don't wear glasses, but maybe you should.

Michala :

I did actually ring him up yesterday, by the way, and say if you wear glasses, bring them, because now would be the time and I said oh no, don't wear glasses.

Warren:

Uh, martin percival brown, bachelor. Isn't the old writing really fancy? Isn't it really hard to decipher um rancor profession. What does that say? Mark market man, market man food stuff and fancy goods and fancy goods? Yeah, because I think he might have had shops or something. Okay, and um, edith kathleen green, you obviously know what that says. What does that say?

Michala :

yeah, so she's a hat hat maker okay so she made hats I like hats uh, can it? Does it tell you where they lived? It should say it's a darcy street, 58 darcy street, manchester. Is you where they lived?

Warren:

It should say Darcy Street, 58, darcy Street, manchester. Is that where they were? I'm assuming that's where my granddad was living.

Michala :

That's right, yeah.

Warren:

And then Robert.

Michala :

Robert Street is it.

Warren:

Manchester also.

Michala :

So I've actually got an image for you around the time of when your granddad lived there of Darcy Street.

Warren:

Oh, wow.

Michala :

So that is what Darcy Street looked like back in the day.

Warren:

Where is Darcy Street in relation to where we are now?

Michala :

So it's towards, like, the Hugh Moss side area of Manchester and then Robert Street. Just in case you're curious, that is the street and that's where your grandmother worked at that hat factory.

Warren:

Wow, so I thought these were just for show, just for set decoration. No, carry on, doctor, I'm gonna keep going.

Michala :

Now. There's something else that the marriage certificate tells us, and that should be who the dads are uh, yes, father's name, percival brown, deceased.

Warren:

So that was a great granddad, yeah, and then john green. I did a search for personal brown.

Michala :

There are no personal browns, percival.

Warren:

Brown deceased. So that was your great granddad, yeah, and then John Green.

Michala :

I did a search for Percival Brown. There are no Percival Browns that I could find that I could link to your tree whatsoever.

Warren:

This is a short episode, then.

Michala :

This is really quick. It's going to finish in two minutes. So then I went to the library and I think I spoke to you about this. I looked at the electoral register of where he was living when he got married your granddad on Darcy Street to see if there was anybody else in that household that had the surname Brown that I could then link to your granddad. Obviously not no. Everyone else had a different surname.

Michala :

So I was going to ring you at this point and go Warren, I can't go any further with your tree there. I can't. I can't find anybody with a dad called Percival Brown, you know, with a son called Martin Brown. I just can't do it like. This is going to be the quickest tree and the first time I failed. But then Okay.

Michala :

But then what I did? I spoke to my amazing friends Ancestry, a progen, hi, jenny, dr Jennifer Doyle and she said look, you crack on with the Manchester Records, my team will have a look at your DNA Right. So they went through all your DNA matches and built the family trees of your DNA matches because you'd taken the Ancestry DNA test and you had a distant DNA match and your distant DNA match. It was like a fourth cousin you shared. I think it was like 68 centimorgans. So DNA is measured in centimorgans.

Warren:

The closer I saw that and I thought centimorgans, what's?

Michala :

a centimorgans.

Warren:

So DNA is measured in centimorgans, the closer Centimorgans. I saw that and thought centimeters, what's a centimorgan?

Michala :

No, I like it. Yeah, small C, big M. So DNA is measured in centimorgans. So the more centimorgans you share with somebody, the closer you are related in theory. Right, so it was 68, so it was quite small. Anyway, this person had the surname Cox. They were based in America so they did their family tree and they discovered that their great-great-grandmother was a lady called Veronica Cox, and Veronica Cox was born on the 1950 American census in Salford. So that obviously then got us thinking and obviously you know we're buzzing at this point because we're thinking well, we know you share DNA with a lady called Veronica Cox from Salford. Who is she? Then we came across her obituary in the newspaper. I wondered if you could have a quick read of this and just summarise it for our listeners.

Warren:

Veronica Cox, daycare director, died Monday March 13th 2000. Daycare director Died Monday March 13th 2000. In Plainfield she was the director of the South Second Street Youth Centre Daycare in Plainfield. Veronica was born in Salford, england, and lived in Manchester, england, prior to moving to Plainfield over 50 years ago. She was a 50-year member of St Mark's Episcopal Church.

Warren:

She devoted her life to the care of children and serving others. As a housewife she cared for children in her home. When she began her career at the South 2nd Street Centre, she held various positions in social services. In 1981, she became the director and held this position until her death. She worked at the centre for over 30 years. She was a former club scout, den mother and girl scout leader. She was active in her community as a community organiser. She was pre-deceased by her husband of 39 years, cecil Warren Cox Senior, in 1987. Surviving are her daughter, jacqueline, five sons, timothy Martin, brian, robert, sean Cox. Her brothers Martin Percival Brown of Presswich, england. So that's my granddad.

Michala :

It's actually granddad. It's actually granddad's sister.

Warren:

Okay, and a sister, moira Davis of England. She was loved and cherished by many nieces, nephews and a host of other relatives and friends. Sister Moira Davis of England. She was loved and cherished by many nieces, nephews and a host of other relatives and friends. So that's my granddad's sister.

Michala :

When we did a bit of digging we found out that she is. She was born in Salford. She's your granddad's sister. She married a Mr Cox over here and then they went over and had a new life in America.

Warren:

I've got a picture of her if you'd like to see it. Yeah, so this is what's her name again veronica veronica, so so her maiden name would have been brown it is brown yeah, it's mad. There's a couple not many photographs at my mum's house, so that I've seen pictures of my granddad but not of any of his relatives or anything.

Michala :

Because obviously we were able to find her obituary, which then gave us the link. I was then able to find her birth certificate because I knew, when she died and it had her birth date on some of her American official records that I was then able to find her birth certificate, which told me that her mum was called. Mum's maiden name was Kundal right. That then enabled me to find your grandfather's birth certificate, and I'm going to show you that now.

Warren:

Where the hell do you get all this stuff from Shoot?

Michala :

I don't know if you can pick out any bits of information from it.

Warren:

Mary Kathleen Brown, formerly Cundall, is that.

Michala :

Yeah, so that's his mum, so that's his mum, what's this?

Warren:

So is the first one, walter is it so?

Michala :

that's his dad, Walter Percival Brown.

Warren:

Wow, Strong name Stoker Merchant Ships. Now is that the mum or is that the?

Michala :

dad. So that's the dad's occupations. He was working on the ships.

Warren:

What's this Bull Bought? Salford, so that's where he was born.

Warren:

Yeahord, so that's where he was born yeah, so that's where he's born, which is in the green gate area of salford, which, if you know, manchester cathedral yeah and you kind of cross over the road and if you were heading towards salford, that is sort of the green gate area of salford like, because I obviously grew up in Warrington but went to uni at Salford and lived in Salford, lived in the old Royal Hospital for a bit and then lived in City Centre after I left uni for a bit and, yeah, I know there was a minute when you were saying, oh, we could come and do this in london, but I just wanted to come back to manchester.

Michala :

Yeah, so your great-grandparents then, walter percival brown and mary kathleen cundall. They had three children. They had joan kathleen she was born in 1924. They had veronica percival, who we know went to America, and they had your granddad, martin Percival. He was born in 1930. Now you may be wondering why Joan Kathleen Brown wasn't mentioned in Veronica's obituary, and that's because she died of pneumonia when she was 18. So that's why she isn't mentioned in the obituary. She was buried on the 26th of November 1942. And she is in a common grave, a public grave, in the Roman Catholic section of Weist Cemetery. A lot of this side of your family is in Weist Cemetery. Family is in is in weist cemetery. Now we've already mentioned about your granddad and we've seen his birth certificate. I've actually got the marriage certificate of your great-grandparents, which I'm going to show you now. So I wondered if you could read some of this out for us. So this is Walter Brown and Mary. It should be Kathleen, but it says Catherine Cundall.

Warren:

Marriage solemnised in the district of Salford. So they were okay, walter Brown, mary, and that's Kathleen Cundall, bachelor spinster ships, fireman Yep. So the 22nd of October 1921, walter Brown.

Michala :

Yep.

Warren:

Mary Kathleen Cundall. So that's my great granddad.

Michala :

That's your great granddad and your great grandmother. Wow. And then, right on the end, it will tell you who is your great great granddad okay, so walter brown's dad also walter brown farmer and mary's dad, henry cundall, a hawker yeah that's hawking goods.

Warren:

Not nothing to do with. There's nothing to do with birds of prey?

Michala :

no, but I like the fact you thought that somewhere in Salford that's why I like Kez they were shooing birds out of the sky probably were actually. But yeah, there's something that you might not have picked up on, actually, from your grandad's birth certificate, and that is that his dad is deceased when he's born okay I've actually got um a record that explains what happened to walter brown, which I'm going to show you now.

Michala :

So this is his death certificate, and he died on the 18th of july 1930 and his son was born on the 24th of july of the same year.

Warren:

Oh gosh 32 years old. There's a lot of young deaths in this family.

Michala :

Yeah, 18th of july 1930, my granddad was born so your granddad was born on the 24th of july 1930 is that pneumonia again?

Warren:

yeah, pneumonia widow of deceased present at death. So would he have died while he was away on it?

Michala :

no, so he died here right so there was six days. She was obviously really heavily pregnant your great-grandmother literally about to give birth, which she does six days later and sadly passed away of pneumonia. He's buried at we cemetery again. Uh, he's buried in a common grave, but I have got a record that I'd like to show you that relates to his funeral.

Warren:

Prince Emenu, west African chief, at Manchester funeral. Prince Emenu, the West African chief, who has been responsible for the inauguration in Manchester of the Negro Justice Association, today attended the funeral of Mr Walter Brown of Greengate, salford, one of the members of the association. He was a member of a distinguished family in British West Africa, said Prince Emmanuel to a representative of the Manchester Evening News today and because of his rank he was entitled in our community to the title of Honourable. He was a faithful member of the Negro community. The Negro Justice Association has been formed to help Negroes in Manchester to find work and generally to look after their interests. Wowzers, speaking to a representative of the Manchester Evening News, I used to hand out free MEN Manchester Evening News papers in Piccadilly Gardens.

Michala :

Did you? Yes. So this document then says to me that in west africa he is from a very prominent family, so much so that when he's, if he was back in west africa, he would be called honorable. So what we know about him is your great granddad is from a very honourable high-ranking family.

Warren:

Do these titles get passed down? Can I now be honourable? I imagine if you go there.

Michala :

Yeah, you would be called Honourable Warren Brown. I'm going to show you the 1921 census because he is on that census.

Warren:

Who's Alice Walker?

Michala :

So that's who he's lodging with.

Warren:

Oh, it says wife. Then crushed out. Yeah, that's not his wife, that's who he's lodging with. Oh, it says wife.

Michala :

then crushed out. Yeah, that's not his wife. That's definitely not his wife.

Warren:

Okay, manchester, british Sierra Leone. Yeah, there's something town there.

Michala :

Freetown.

Warren:

Freetown. Wow, it's crazy because you don't know what you're actually looking for, but when you've just pointed that out there, yes, sierra leone can I take that back one moment?

Michala :

so he's from free town in sierra leone. What he does on this form is he makes a mistake, and the mistake he makes is he puts his full date of birth on, and it's actually not needed on a census. All all that's needed is the how old you are. But he puts his full date of birth on, which then enables me to find his merchant navy, navy semen record and that I won't pass it over. But basically that's what it looks like. Yeah, so that tells me where he was born and it corresponds with the date of birth. Do you want to see a picture of him? Yes, please. Do you want to see a picture of him? Yes, please. Such a great grandad.

Warren:

What else is I can see. Like I say, I've met my grandad but it's many, many years ago and seen pictures there's a bit there but so this would have been for his.

Michala :

Yeah, so this is his merchant semen record. Yeah, so you saw page one. Basically, that is page two. The only reason I was able to get that picture was because he makes a mistake on the 1921 census and puts his date of birth on it. Yeah, which isn't needed. But thank you so much, Walter, for doing that Nice one.

Warren:

Walter, walter's a good name.

Michala :

It's a strong name, isn't it? Right now, I'm going to keep going just because I'm conscious of time. I know it's a lot to take in right, but we're just going to keep going, so in to keep going. So, in terms of this sierra leone side, that's as much as I can do from over here. To carry that on, you would need to go over to sierra leone. There are some birth records that are now have been transcribed. However, he misses it by a month from his birth.

Michala :

So the rest of that story you would have to go to Sierra Leone. Okay, so I'm going to keep going because obviously I'm conscious of time. So you may wonder then what happens to your great-grandmother when he passes away. Obviously, she's got the three children.

Warren:

So he's met her in Manchester.

Michala :

He's just a baby. He's met her in Salford. Yeah, she remarries. She remarries a gentleman called Tom Davis and they have two more children and if you remember the obituary, the two children are actually mentioned in Veronica's obituary and that's why they have the surname Davis. That's because she remarries A gentleman called Tom Just before the war in 1939, she's living on Stoke Street and she's bottling beer for a brewery.

Warren:

We like her.

Michala :

Sorry to interrupt the podcast and it will be back in just a minute, but I would like to take the time to talk to you about an organisation that is really close to my heart, and that is the Power of One. The Power of One is a non-profit organisation founded by the fabulous Samantha Hutchinson, which supports women across the world who work in the animal welfare community. There are currently thousands of women across the globe who are fighting the animal welfare community. There are currently thousands of women across the globe who are fighting to improve the lives of animals and make their communities safer by reducing the spread of disease. They are working really hard to reduce the number of animals on the street through rescue, providing rehabilitation, rehoming and spray and neutering campaigns. They are also raising awareness through education in local schools and improving public perceptions of the cities, towns and countries in which they live. Now, this industry relies almost exclusively on public donations, and many women risk their livelihoods and in some cases, even their lives, just to be a part of it. Funding helps to create jobs. It supports families and local businesses and provides access to education and much needed mental health support.

Michala :

If you get a chance and look. I know times are hard. But if you get a chance, please just check out the Paravon website I've put the details in the podcast description and even just tell people about this organisation, this wonderful organisation, and what they are doing to help animals and especially dogs. And if you know me, you know all of my dogs around the world. Now back to the podcast. I'm going to stay on your dad's side, so I'm now going to go down his mum's side, which is Edith Kathleen Green, who we mentioned. We know that she's making hats. She is the daughter of John Green and Edith Smith. They're your great grandparents In 1939, just before World War II. Your grandmother is living with her parents on Tempest Street, which is in Manchester, your great-grandparents. They got married in 1931 at St Silas Church, which is in Ardwick, sadly no longer there anymore.

Warren:

But it's a very beautiful church.

Michala :

John Green is 24 years old and he is a labourer, and Edith Smith is 25 years old and she is a machinist. Her father is listed as a retired postman and unfortunately, john Green doesn't have a dad listed on his marriage certificate and that's because his mum Lily had him out of wedlock, so we don't actually know who his dad is. However, edith Smith, your great-grandmother is keeping a secret when she gets married and this only came out because you took an ancestor dna test. It's all your fault. So when she walked down the aisle that day, the secret is is that she already had a daughter, so your grandmother has a half sister. Right that? I don't know if your grandmother ever knew that she had a half sister. I doubt it, but she it. But she may have done.

Michala :

She was a little girl. She was born in 1927. This was before she marries John Green. She has this daughter and in 1939, edith agrees that the family could adopt the daughter. She has the girl in 1927. She's not married at this point. She adopts the girl to basically a local family. I think it was an informal adoption, probably a family that she knew. Well, that's what her daughter believes, because she's reached out on ancestry, so because her daughter is still alive.

Warren:

Oh.

Michala :

God. So she has this little girl. She, I think, entrusts her with her family, and they're a lovely family, they're a local family in ardwick. And then in 1939, by this point, obviously, she is married yeah she agrees that the child can be formally adopted. What's interesting for me is on the birth record, when she has this girl out of wedlock, she puts her occupation and it's not machinist, so it's not what she is when she gets married it's dancer okay so she is a stage performer right she's not the only one that's a stage performer her sister is a stage performer and her dad is a musician.

Warren:

No way.

Michala :

So, even though her dad is a postman I've tracked his career and I know that before he was a postman he was a musician Her sister is constantly. She's never here, she's always on the stage, travelling, so there is definitely a theatrical gene.

Warren:

No way further down the line.

Michala :

On that side of your family.

Warren:

I also used to dance as a job in a bar in Manchester.

Michala :

Did you?

Warren:

That's a different podcast.

Michala :

Okay, yes, let's not mention that I probably went in it. You know, at some point, Teases on Dean.

Warren:

I do, yes, yes.

Michala :

I think everyone wanted a job there at the time because it was like Cote ugly, wasn't it? That's what it was built on. Yeah, um, just sticking with that side of the family then. So, edith smith I found her on the 1911 census. Her parents are william joseph smith, who is your great great grandfather. He was born in 1863 in devon and her mum is bridget downey. She is your great-great-grandmother. She was born in Kerry Island in 1873. Now you know he's a postman because I've already mentioned it was on her marriage certificate he was a postman, but before that we know he was a performer, he was a musician.

Warren:

So this is my.

Michala :

This is your great-great-grandparents, so this is your dad's mum. So this is where dad. So this is where the irish, the irish side, on your dad's side my dad's mom's side.

Warren:

Obviously that he, yeah, he knew, but she died when he was young. Yeah, and obviously we've never known. No, so that's the irish side so that is the irish side.

Michala :

So we've mentioned that he was a musician and he was also a postman in later life, but before that he was in the army. And it kind of explains, because when I look at where all the kids are born, warren, they're born all over the shop. So Edith's siblings, like her sister Kathleen, who's a dancer, is born in Aldershot. Her eldest brother is born in Preston. They're all over the place and I've got a couple of his army records I want to show you, if that's all right. This is one of his uh, this is his medical record, but it gives you sort of a bit of information about him and it also you should be able to make out there his trade or occupation. And this is from 1890.

Warren:

This is your great, great granddad, how the hell have you found this stuff again wonderfully difficult writing yes, terrible birthplace Plymouth, devon. Age last birthday 27. Trader. Occupation musician I've always I can't play anything, can you not? No?

Michala :

not like. I thought you'd be like playing a guitar.

Warren:

I stole a guitar from a set once, and what happened? No it just looked good in me flat for a while.

Michala :

Yeah, Can you sing though?

Warren:

Can I sing?

Michala :

Yeah, are we ever going to get you to do musical theatre?

Warren:

I'd love to do musical. I absolutely love musical theatre Really, but I can't sing that well. No, I've got friends who are great actors musicians that are in musical theatre yeah and I would have loved to, but no, can I grab that back one second.

Michala :

I've got another. So these are some of the things that he was so that he got ill with while he was in the war. So I don't know if you can make out. So in this the middle bit here, warren are some of the illnesses he has, and he has one reoccurring quite a lot. I don't know if you can kind of make it out?

Warren:

It doesn't say gonorrhea, does it?

Michala :

Does that say gonorrhea, gonorrhea, gonorrhea again, oh, gonorrhea, bronchitis I mean are these genuinely illnesses or is he uh, so yeah, so this is just his medical record of times when he needed hospital treatment oh god, so it's yeah, bronchitis and a couple of things I can't make out, but you, you just wanted me to make sure that I knew that. I just wanted you to know that he had gonorrhoea.

Warren:

Multiple cases of gonorrhoea On quite a few different occasions. That's hilarious.

Michala :

So I'm going to keep going with him for the time being. So he was born in Devon I've've already mentioned that but his dad believe it or not, because I was able to go back a bit further was actually born in chester, right? So I think, because they're all military men, they just moved around, uh, an awful lot. But I think you know, like, when you're looking to your family tree, I think definitely that showman side, the being on the stage and the theatre side, definitely is echoed in that part of your tree. I'm going to just quickly touch on your mum's side because I am conscious of time. So your great-grandfather on that side is Edward Cretney. Is that how you pronounce it, cretney?

Warren:

yeah, yeah, I knew him when I was a kid and yeah, I knew my mum's mum Maureen.

Michala :

Yeah, so the Cretney side of your tree there from the Isle of man.

Warren:

Right.

Michala :

When we go back your great great grandfather, john James Cretney. He was born in 1857 and his wife was called Mary Ledbetter. They were the ones that moved from the Isle of man to Ashton-upon-Mersey in Sale in around 1900. The Ledbetters were actually fishermen from Fleetwood, believe it or not, so there's definitely fishing in your genes.

Warren:

That didn't come down to me. I think I've been fishing once on a stag do.

Michala :

How did that go?

Warren:

Not very good Sea fishing. Eight hours worth of sea fishing. I think for eight of those hours I was hanging onto the side throwing up yeah, so it's not passed.

Michala :

That's not gone through the genes, has it? So yeah, as I mentioned the Ledbeths, they were fishermen from Fleetwood. Your great-great-grandmother, mary Ledbeth, she had been married before. So before she married John James Cretney, she had married a gentleman called John Kim in 1880. So stick with your mum's side, Stick with your mum's dad's side. His mother was Ethel Moores. I don't know if you remember an Ethel at all.

Michala :

She would be your great grandmother.

Michala :

I think she would be Her parents. Your great great grandmother was Samuel Moores, a baker, and Louisa Jane Evans. I was able to go back to your three times grandfather, william Moores, who was born in Middlewich, and I have a baptism record for him from 1814. Oh dear, I was able to go back further than that on his mum's side. I couldn't go back any further on his dad's side because his dad's not listed. She had him out of wedlock Right, if we stick with the Estelle Moore's line. Her mother was called Louisa Jane Evans. She would be your great, great grandmother. Her father was charles evans, a joiner. He was born in 1826 and he died in 1873, and her mother was called betsy edgerton. I have their marriage record but I'm not going to show you because we're short on time. You can see from the marriage record that Charles had been married before. He married a lady called Amelia Ashworth in 1852, but unfortunately the year after their marriage she died of a stroke. Charles's parents, which would be your four times great-grandfather, evan Evans, was born in Wales.

Warren:

I was just going to say he sounds Welsh.

Michala :

He was Welsh, he was a joiner, but he also owned a beer house in Salford called the Straggler's Nest, and I did find an article about him which I'm just going to show you now. This is an article from 1848 blimey oh, bang straight away.

Warren:

Robbery with violence. Is this my relative or? It is I thought you said there was no criminals he's a victim.

Warren:

Robert A B the Fire, a man named Patrick Plover on Friday last presented himself at the pawn shop of Mr Taylor at Oldham Road with a silver watch. He wanted to borrow 30 shillings on it, suspicion being excited that he had not come by the article in an honest way, he was interrogated about it and as he could only say in reply that he'd got it from a man in a public house in deansgate no way uh whom he did not know and paid 35 I'm assuming that shillings right yeah he was consequently apprehended and, evidence of ownership having been traced, he was on uh.

Warren:

He was, on saturday, placed in the dock at the Borough Court when Evan Evans deposed that. On the night of the 17th of February he was knocked down in Edgerton Street Hume by a blow on the head from behind him. On recovering his senses he found his watch had gone. The watch now shown was the one he was robbed of. The prisoner was committed to sessions.

Michala :

So that is it I did manage to find. I did manage to find. This is a very old book, from 1850. And both Charles Evans and his dad, evan Evans, are mentioned in this trade directory, so they are joiners. And obviously Evan Evans, his dad, also owns the beer house. So I will show you this once we have finished recording. But I've just got one last question, which I always ask all my guests If you could have dinner with anybody in your family trees tonight, who would it be and why, and what would you cook them?

Warren:

Oh gosh. Well, unfortunately none of the relatives were great chefs and that didn't get passed down. I don't know. I think maybe Walter yeah, in Sierra Leone.

Michala :

Yeah, I bet he'd be a good cook.

Warren:

you know, I bet he'd be a great cook.

Michala :

yeah, I bet he'd do amazing food yeah yeah good cook. You know a great cook.

Warren:

Yeah, I bet you do amazing food yeah yeah, warren, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It's obviously there's so much information to take on, but I know obviously then I can kind of go away and look at and process it. But I'm so very grateful for you for all that work and um actually been able to just go right.

Warren:

I know because, like I say, I've got so many, had so many questions and not known exactly, and people go I can see that there's something, but never knowing and actually just to know, yeah exactly where it was and be able to see kind of when when they moved over, but also that it's um very Manchester through and through as well oh, proper Manx through and through, and there's so much more to do, by the way, so this is just literally the tip of the iceberg.

Michala :

I think for your tree there's loads more research you can do with it, but thank you so much no thank you.

Michala :

So that is it for this week's podcast. A huge, huge thank you to my fabulous guest, warren Brown. Also, if you get a chance, please, please, check out the Power of One. I've popped a link in the podcast description below. If you want to get in contact with me, you can do so via my website, which is wwwmichaelahumecom. Have an absolutely fantastic week researching folks, and I shall see you again very soon. Thank you for listening.