Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast
Step into the fascinating world of genealogy and family history with Unearth the Past, a podcast hosted by the charismatic Dr. Michala Hulme. This show masterfully blends riveting discussions, deep dives into historical contexts, and practical tips for uncovering your ancestral roots. Each week, Dr Hulme welcomes an eclectic mix of guests—musicians, actors, sports stars, and public figures—unravelling the remarkable and often surprising stories hidden within their family trees.
Beyond these compelling narratives, the podcast serves as a treasure trove for genealogy enthusiasts, spotlighting essential tools and resources for research. It also paints a vivid picture of the social and cultural landscapes that shaped family histories, exploring powerful themes like immigration, industrial revolutions, and the resilience of past generations.
If you would like to get in touch with Michala, you can do so via her website, www.michalahulme.com
If you want to help support the making of the podcast, please visit Michala's Patreon account https://www. patreon.com/DrMichalaHulme
Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast
S3 Ep2: Music, Manchester & a bit of the Midlands: Unearthing the Past with Sacha Lord
Join Dr Michala Hulme for an unforgettable episode of Unearth the Past, where she sits down with the remarkable Sacha Lord, a Sunday Times best-selling author and world-renowned promoter. Learn about Sacha's exhilarating journey from the vibrant Manchester nightlife scene to helming iconic events like Park Life. You'll be captivated by tales from his book, filled with brushes with danger and moments of triumph. She also delves into Sacha's deep-rooted family history, uncovering his ancestors' significant contributions to the Lancashire textile industry over the past 250 years.
Through old trade directories and ancestral photographs, Michala illustrates Sacha's ancestral journey through the generations, from the economic struggles faced by early handloom weaver John Lord during the Industrial Revolution to Maud Mary Lea's family, who were decorative furniture artists. Furthermore, we share poignant stories, such as the resilience and hardship endured by the Hettricks and the Cronshaws. Tune in for an episode brimming with rich histories and personal anecdotes that promise to keep you engaged.
Links
Michala Hulme
Sacha's book, Tales from the Dancefloor
Power of One
Rostherne Research
DNA Test - gifted from Ancestry
Hello and welcome back to Unearth the Past, a podcast where we delve into the lives of interesting people. All the research in this podcast was conducted by Ross Thurn Research, which is my own research company. If you would like your family tree researching, like one of the guests we've had on the show, I will pop a link in the podcast description. Pop a link in the podcast description. So it's me, dr Michaela Hume, and we are back this week with an absolutely unbelievable guest. So my guest this week is a Sunday Times best-selling author, a world-renowned promoter, a hospitality champion and the night-time advisor to the Mayor of Greater Manchester, sasha Lord. Welcome to the podcast. Sasha Lord, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. No, thank you. This means so much to me because there are a lot of people that listen and tune in to these podcasts. I don't know that. I actually started my working life as a guest list girl on the doors in Manchester, so I know all about your nights and I know all about you. You are a mythical legend. Our paths must have crossed.
Speaker 2:They probably did. Many times they probably did.
Speaker 1:The thing is, I will say this your nights were for people who were really into the music. I'm not saying that the nights that I stood on the guest list for weren't, but I would say that your nights were people who you know they were into the music, weren't they? Can we start, though, by talking about your book?
Speaker 2:We can.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant. Did you enjoy it? Did I enjoy it? It's honestly, it's got everything in there, everything you would want from a book, and more. It was to a point where I thought this couldn't have really happened.
Speaker 2:Well, actually there's bits that the lawyers cut out, that you would definitely have thought, this did not happen Really. Yes, yeah, oh, my goodness, that was the hardest thing. So originally HarperCollins said we need 320. And I was like, wow, that's a lot. We're going to have to pad that out. But actually it was condensing it down to 320. But the lawyers must have taken 100 pages off.
Speaker 1:And when you started this, obviously it's sort of chronological, isn't it really it is, you know, you talk about your younger days, growing up, and then how you got into sort of promoting nights and how that's evolved to the biggest club in the world, yeah, yeah. And then Park Life unbelievably successful. But there's a paragraph in it. Can I read this paragraph? I think I read a lot right and I think this is one of the best paragraphs I have ever read. Are you ready for this?
Speaker 2:I'm dreading this.
Speaker 1:I've been shot at in a drive-by shooting, bundled into a car by gangsters and had death threats, which wasn't very acid house. I've been sued and broke. I've had to deal with an army of rats who were high on cocaine, had £130,000 stolen from me during an armed robbery and I've been targeted by a Romanian organised gang. This is on page two.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Page two.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, you know, obviously you've had instances like this and it's synonymous, isn't it, with the nightclub scene and running nights, especially in Manchester during the period that you were operating. What made you keep going, sasha?
Speaker 2:Do you know what? I've been asked this question a lot and when you're in it you run on adrenaline. Yeah, you do, but you know from the book. I left school with two U's and an E, no qualifications, didn't go to university or anything like that. So I had no choice. I knew I was okay. I knew I was a good promoter. That was the only thing I was good at, so I had to stick with it. I had no choice. I had to pay the bills and promoting was the only way I could do it.
Speaker 1:I think this leads quite nicely into your family tree and I have thoroughly enjoyed, by the way, researching your family tree. It's a great family tree. I'm going to show you a record from the newspaper and I just want to get your thoughts on it. So this is from 1971. And I don't know if you recognise anybody in that picture. That's my mum and dad.
Speaker 2:That's your mum and dad, and the only reason I know that is that I've seen that picture before. They had that blown up. That was at the wedding and I think is it lucky to be kissed by a chimney sweep or something well, I didn't know this, but I take it by the. I've never read the article it it obviously is and also, then, what you probably don't know is this says here honeymoon in Portugal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's where I was conceived Really.
Speaker 1:So they tell me Right.
Speaker 2:So they told me but yes, no, I have seen that picture before, let's start on your paternal side.
Speaker 1:So let's start on your dad's side of your family tree. Now, after reading your book, you do know a bit, don't you, about your dad's side.
Speaker 2:I know that my dad inherited a good business and essentially cocked it up is what I know.
Speaker 1:Sasha's family have been involved in the Lancashire textile industry for well over 250 years. During that time, his ancestors progressed from weaving cotton in their homes to creating a successful wholesale textile business called Lord Co. Lord Co was founded by Sasha's two-times great-grandfather, john Lord, in the 1870s. John was born in 1841 and in his early 30s he was working in a distribution warehouse where he took the bold decision to set up his own business buying and distributing cotton fabrics. The business was initially operating out of a basement which is now where the Arndale Centre stands. It later moved to George Street before finally moving in 1973 to Fab Lord House near Strangeways. Since its founding in the 19th century, four generations of Lords would take the company into the 20th century, starting with Sasha's great-great-grandfather, john Lord, followed by his son, clement Lord, then Edward John Lord and finally Sasha's father, john Lord. That will be true. I don't know about the cocking up part, father John.
Speaker 2:Lord, that will be true, okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know about the cocking up part.
Speaker 2:Oh, he did, he did right, okay yeah.
Speaker 1:So I have traced your family tree going way back into the 18th century Really Into the 18th century, on the Lord's side. Wow, and yes, that's right, you did have a very successful family business in textile. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what was quite interesting, I read a quote from your granddad, actually, which I'm going to read now, because how do you find all this stuff? I just have a lot of time on my hands, but I'm going to read this quote, which I thought was a nice quote from your granddad, and I sort of see this work ethic in you, right. So your granddad said it has been a family custom for each generation to be thrown in at the deep end, as it were, while still young. Deep end, as it were, while still young. Experience has shown that each of us has been able to inject new ideas when, as inevitable with the older generation, a little push becomes necessary. So when I looked back through the Lord family tree and I looked at the business, it seems that each generation starts really young, literally. They leave school and they are thrust into the business, and I know that in your granddad's case, by the age of 22, managing director similar thing with your dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that shows me then at a young age definitely on the Lord's side.
Speaker 2:That's the same as me then. So I was oh my God, I was 22 when I put my first night on 4th of July 1994, hacienda. I think we're not a very intelligent family, are we what? There's no university degrees or anything in there.
Speaker 1:Your great-grandad. He went to Cheadle Hume School, did he? He did, wow, he did, wow, he did. Clement, Lord Sasha's great-grandfather, attended the Warehousemen and Clark School for Boys, now known as Cheadle Hume School. The boarding school was originally established in 1855 by a group of Manchester businessmen to cater for orphans and necessitous children of warehousemen and clerks. However, by 1862, the school started taking in fee-paying pupils as boarders and day students in order to help fund the education of the orphan pupils. By the time Clement attended the school in the 1880s, the school had moved from Ardwick in Manchester to a new site in Cheadle Hume.
Speaker 1:Once Clement finished school, he went straight into the family textile business, as would his son and later his grandson. The business would last over 100 years, with good times, such as the selling of their fabrics in over 23 countries, and challenging times, such as the recession and the invention of artificial fibres. If they hadn't have been forward thinking and relying on the youth to push it forward, the business may have gone under, I think, numerous times, and I wondered if you could pick up on the time that you mentioned in the book, during the war, when they got the black fabric. But before then it was a bit dicey, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the story my dad tells me was my grandpa had this huge order from Sweden for black fabric, massive Like an unheard of order. So he didn't have the money to buy the fabric. So he had to remortgage the house, re-remortgage the house, finance all the cars, borrow off the banks, friends, family, everything, scrape the money together and then a week before the fabric was due to be shipped out, the order was cancelled and he literally would have lost his shirt. That was it Done, house gone, everything. Fortunately for him, not for the UK, fortunately for him. We went to war at that time, world War II, and the government wanted to buy as much black fabric as possible. We called it blackout to put up at the window, so when the bombers were going across they couldn't see the light coming from the houses and he had the biggest amount of black fabric in the UK.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's luck uk.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a lot. I did manage to find a reference actually in a very old trade directory of manchester of your great, great great grandfather, henry hardman lord, so I'm going to show you that now. So if you just have a look sort of around here here, I'll pass it over. Your seat I have to grab it. Wow, and he's living in Salford. Wow, so that's from 1850.
Speaker 2:So not just Manchester, Salford as well.
Speaker 1:You have a strong Salford gene running through you. Yeah, definitely On both sides of your tree.
Speaker 2:I knew my mum. Yeah, I knew that. Definitely yeah, and actually one of the worst days of my grandma's life was when she lived in Worsley.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Worsley Lancashire was what she bought, and then they changed all the boundaries to Worsley Salford. She was mortified, was she livid, absolutely livid, and never let it down, right? I mean, how do you find this? You just randomly find it.
Speaker 1:Believe it or not, that's a book from my collection. I'm that sad I know. So that's from 1850. So in 1850, your, the Lord, the Lords, were living in Salford. What is now, I think, ortsall Road? Yeah, yeah so it used to be called Kent Place okay so they, they are living there.
Speaker 1:So that side of the family then, coming into the present, each generation has done well for themselves. They've moved out of manchester, moved to the suburbs because they can, because we've now got the railway, so it means that people can move further afield. When your great granddad retires he goes to, I think, southport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, uh, granddad lives in north wales yes for a while yeah, yeah, yeah, around Diganwe Conway, that's correct.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, that's correct, he was part of the shooting club.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I knew you'd hate that.
Speaker 1:I knew you'd hate that. If we go past Henry right the mechanic and we go to his dad called John, there's a lot of Johns.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He was a handloom weaver. What's one of those? Sasha's four-times great-grandfather, john Lord, was born in 1769 in Kursley, greater Manchester. On the 5th of January 1804, he married Anne Hardman at the local parish church. John spent all of his working life as a handloom weaver.
Speaker 1:During the 18th century, domestic weavers like John played a crucial role in the textile industry. They would weave fabric in their own homes and would get paid on what they produced. This skilled and respected profession was relatively well paid, affording weavers a comfortable existence. However, things were about to change. The introduction of powered machinery in the latter half of the 18th century, such as the spinning jenny and the power loom, meant that cloth could now be made faster, cheaper and in larger quantities than what a traditional hand loom weaver could produce. The first purpose-built steam-powered mill came to Manchester in 1782 and was built by Richard Arkwright.
Speaker 1:The arrival of the mill, combined with other external factors, led to economic hardship for many weavers. Between 1805 and 1808, weavers' wages decreased by more than 50%. Weavers felt, and rightly so, that there was no one in Parliament to represent them and speak up on their behalf. In 1819, an estimated 60,000 men, women and children, predominantly handloom weavers, and their families descended on St Peter's Field in Manchester to hear orator Henry Hunt speak on parliamentary reform. What was a peaceful protest soon turned into a massacre when the yeomanry who had been drinking all day attacked the crowd with their sabres. Hundreds were injured and at least 15 were killed. We know from the records that John was a handloom weaver well into the 1850s, whilst we don't know that John was at the massacre because we don't have a full list of everybody that attended. We do know that weavers from his village were injured in the attack.
Speaker 1:What's interesting with John and his sons, and especially Henry, is that Henry, I think you know he'd seen his dad as a handling weaver and it's funny that he then becomes a mechanical engineer, almost thinking about what's next. You know what's replacing the handling, what is going to be next, and from that they all do well for themselves. So Manchester at this time is opportunity. Opportunity. You know it is the city of opportunity. If you work hard, like now really, I still think that's the same now. You know, if you work hard and you graft and you're an example of that and I am if you work hard, you can do all right for yourself and I think the generations have done that. So it wasn't always wealth with the lords. Um, it's just a succession of generations of work hard, took opportunities and and sort of bettered themselves. Yeah, but I'm gonna go on to. We're gonna stick with your dad's side to sort of discuss the lords.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go down your grandma's side so I know nothing about her side, right, okay, nothing I want to go have a look at your dad's mum's side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's called mary betty edwards. I know you called her betty but yeah, betty bettina yeah, I knew about the mary mary. Yeah, so she was born mary okay, and we've actually got a picture that one of your distant relatives um has given me one of the distant relatives? Yes, the distant relatives has provided us with these pictures, and these are all your ancestors, wow. So I thought we could maybe go through and talk about some of them.
Speaker 2:So what do you know, I remember her so I always thought she had connections to North Wales. She does, because as a kid I was always in L had connections to North Wales.
Speaker 1:She does.
Speaker 2:Because as a kid I was always in Llandudno, conway, duganway, around that area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's correct. She does have connections to North.
Speaker 2:Wales.
Speaker 1:So we're going to unpick this side of you which, by the way I went back to a few years ago.
Speaker 2:It's not changed Really, it's exactly the same.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 2:We've even got the slot machines in the arcade on Llandudno Pier. That's pushing 2Ps.
Speaker 1:Who's got 2Ps? I was going to say are they still 2Ps? They are. Is it now like a quid?
Speaker 2:No 2Ps, so I don't know who's using them.
Speaker 1:I have a caravan in Wales so I still go to Wales and I love it. But my memory as a kid is playing those machines.
Speaker 2:I used to love it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I used to love it. And then every now and again when nobody was looking, you'd like you bang it yeah. But now I think they're all alarmed. So yes. Why did Sasha get arrested for banging a 2P machine? So Mary Betty Edwards and she was born in 1917. She was born in Staffordshire Was she.
Speaker 1:Yes, was she? Yes, yeah, she was born in Staffordshire. I actually got which I'll show you, um, because I've not put it on the iPad but I went to the records office and got the marriage certificate of your grandparents, which then enabled me, obviously to keep going back, because the marriage certificate tells me who the dad is, and that enabled me to sort of keep going back. So, this gentleman here with the fantastic lips that is your great-grandfather, thomas Harold Edwards.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:He was born, believe it or not, in London, in London, but he died in Southport.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean he has got he's rocking some good lips there, hasn't he Unbelievable?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely unbelievable. Somebody has colourised the image and I will say colourisation doesn't always work on images and on him it's given him the most fantastic lipstick and eyeshadow you've ever seen in your life. Now, the reason that he travels around a lot and he does travel around a lot as a child is because his dad is a provision dealer, so he's basically a grocer provision dealer. So they start off in London, then they move for a short time to Merseyside and then they end up in Southport.
Speaker 2:Okay, that was lucky.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, as somebody who is literally Mr Manchester was there any regions that you didn't want in the tree?
Speaker 2:Well, I think maybe London and Liverpool would have been the concerning ones.
Speaker 1:You've got both.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:I want to go down Mary's mum's side and Mary's mum's side. She's called Maud Mary Lee.
Speaker 2:I knew the name, Maud. Did you know Maud? Well, do you know what? If you'd asked me half an hour ago, I wouldn't have been on Sally. But that would just come back to me.
Speaker 1:I've actually got a picture of her when she was young, if you'd like to see it.
Speaker 2:How do you get this? That is incredible. Wow, grandma Maude.
Speaker 1:Grandma Maude. Yes, now, she was born in 1889, on the 12th of August in Birmingham.
Speaker 2:So because my grandma was from Stafford, she's from Birmingham, so there's a Midlands thing going on.
Speaker 1:There's a Midlands thing going on there.
Speaker 2:Right Birmingham.
Speaker 1:So there's a Midlands thing going on. There's a Midlands thing going on there. Her mum is called Maud Mary Lister and her dad is called John William Lee. I managed to find them on the census record. So they get married in 1888 and the next record after their marriage I can find them on is the 1891 census. You definitely have a creative gene running down that side. Okay, that's good. Is there anybody creative in your family? Can you draw?
Speaker 2:So, Painting. Yeah, that's my thing. The only thing and I mention it in the book the only thing I enjoyed at school was art, that's it.
Speaker 1:The creative gene definitely comes from this side of your family. I was able to go back further on Maude Mary Lister's it. The creative gene definitely comes from this side of your family. I was able to go back further on Maud Mary Lister's side. So Maud Mary Lister, her parents, were called Thomas Lister and Harriet Hawthorne. Right Now I managed to track them on the census record. They had nine children in total. So this would be your great, great great grandparents. They had nine children in total. So this would be your great, great great grandparents. They had nine children. They had six girls and they had three boys.
Speaker 1:Now on the 1971 census, thomas lister is recorded as an iron worker foreman in in the birmingham area. So all west midlands, we know birmingham at this time is very famous for creating things. Yeah, whereas we're fabric, they're. All west midlands, we know birmingham at this time is very famous for creating things. Yeah, whereas we're fabric, they're things. Then in 1881 I came across an occupation that I've never come across before in my life a japaner what's a japaner? And I hope I've pronounced that right. I didn't know. First, sushi chef, I didn't know right. So I had to look this japaner and I hope I've pronounced that right, I didn't know First, sushi chef, I didn't know right, so I had to look this up.
Speaker 1:Japaning was the name given to a type of decorative finish inspired by Asian lacquer work. The name originated in England during the 17th century. The process involved applying layers of lacquer to an object often expensive furniture and metalware and then heating the object to create a hard, glossy finish. Once the lacquer had hardened, decorative designs were applied to the surface and the object was then polished. The West Midlands, in particular Bilston where Thomas Lister was born, was famous for its Japanware. By the time Thomas was employed in Japaning, the trade was already in decline. What was a must-have item in middle-class homes in the 18th and early 19th centuries was now out of fashion, and by the 1920s the industry had largely died out in the region. When Thomas retired from Japaning, he kept up his artistic desires by becoming a flower painter. Obviously, being able to do that was a skill, and if we go to the 1901 census, he lists his occupation as decorative artist and on the 1911 census his occupation is recorded as artist flower painter.
Speaker 2:Wow, so he must have specialised in.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. If you look on the 1881 census and look at what his daughters are doing, kate and Alice Lister, who are his daughters, are actually listed as ornamental transferesses, which basically means that they are doing the designs and then transferring them onto it could be glass, metal furniture. That's fascinating. So that's what if we go down your dad's mum's side?
Speaker 2:That's the creative route.
Speaker 1:Creative route. Definitely, it appears that they were workers, so in theory you know they didn't have their own businesses. But I think definitely on the paternal side of your tree there is that sort of drive, entrepreneurship, you know, thinking about creating their own business and creating jobs, which was much needed at this time. If you've tuned into this podcast before, you will probably know by now that I'm a proud supporter of the Power of One, an amazing organisation that supports women across the globe who are involved in animal welfare. This week I want to talk to you about TOLFA, tree of Life for Animals, a dedicated animal welfare charity based in Rajasthan in India.
Speaker 1:Tolfa provides comprehensive care to a wide array of animals. Their approach goes far beyond physical recovery, encompassing emotional well-being and community education. They emphasise the empowerment of women from low-cost communities, offering them employment opportunities within their nurturing staff. £1,000 would sponsor one member of staff for a year. Our goal is to try and raise £5,000 to fund five new members of staff for their nurturing team, which is crucial to help support the growing number of animals in their care, to support TOLFA's mission and to make a difference to the lives of animals and women in marginalised communities in Rajasthan. Please visit the Power of One website and I've put a link in the podcast description below. Thank you for listening. Now back to the podcast. I'm conscious of time and I want to have a look at your mum's side, because this is a side that you didn't really know much about.
Speaker 2:I know nothing about this at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going gonna bring up your tree so you can see it. Just apart from one thing, what did you know?
Speaker 2:so I've got at home um a player's handbook right for wolfhounds and wonders okay, did you pick up on that?
Speaker 1:I didn't pick up on that, no, so we think Go on.
Speaker 2:My grandpa's dad played for Wolves at one point.
Speaker 1:Okay, so your granddad is that Gilbert Kenneth. Yes, right, okay, his dad was John Reeves Morris.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. Yeah, so we think he played for Wolves.
Speaker 1:Can we start with him?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to show you this record. So this is your great granddad. This is John Reeves Morris, and I managed to find him and his family on the 1911 census, so I'm just going to turn this around.
Speaker 2:So this was the side I was a lot closer to.
Speaker 1:Did you know that there was a Welsh connection then on this side? For God's sake.
Speaker 2:Did you know that I didn't know.
Speaker 1:So what did you? Did you meet? Obviously, you wouldn't have met your great grandfather, and there's a reason for that, and that's because he passes away quite young, really. I'm going to show you this record.
Speaker 2:That's my grandma's grave, and I just want you to reese morris jack, who died 1923 in his 35th year yeah wow, he did die young, didn't he?
Speaker 1:I know from this record, which I'm going to show you now, that his death was in relation to the war, and that's because I don't know if you can read, just read what this record is Widow's pension. Widow's pension? Yeah, so this is his death certificate.
Speaker 2:Okay, 21st October 1923. Male, 34 years, general labourer, steelworks again.
Speaker 1:Steelworks. He basically had a heart condition.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Now I looked this up because I thought why would you be entitled to a widow's pension if it was nothing to do with the war? If it was nothing to do with the war, and there are some reports that I read where something called trench fever can lead to heart conditions. So he dies relatively, relatively young. I have found a record, actually which is just before he dies, but it actually mentions your granddad on it. So this is the 1921 census and I don't know if you can just scroll in, but you should just be able to see at the bottom the name of your granddad there he is, my grandpa gilbert kenneth morris, grandson wow pendleton on that side.
Speaker 1:Everybody lived in pendleton, but also on there is your great granddad. I don't know if you can find him on there. John Reeves Morris, I can see it. Yeah, can you see where he's born if you scroll across? Well, that's definitely Welsh. Wales.
Speaker 2:How bizarre. I never knew there was a Welsh connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, another side of your mum's bit of the tree that I want to talk to you about, side of your mum's bit of the tree that I want to talk to you about and that is the on her mum's mum's side, ethel ethel cronshaw yes yes, that name ring a bell. Yeah, okay. So ethel's dad was called john edward cronshaw and mum was called ethel. It's obviously named after a mum, ethel hetrick. I hope I pronounced that right. Yes, pronounced right, you, I pronounced that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, is that pronounced right? You have pronounced that right. And the only reason I know that name Was because when I was at school, we went to look at the Battle of the Somme. Yes, and my grandma gave me some money for some flowers To go and put next to the name Hetrick that's on a wall. That's right, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that now. Okay, so I managed to. Shall I tell, to go and put next to the name Hedrick that's on a wall.
Speaker 1:That's right, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that now, okay.
Speaker 2:So I managed to Shall, I tell you something awful, go on, I spent some sweet, I know.
Speaker 1:I hope you're not watching this somewhere. She's not If you want to come back and haunt him. So John Edward Crenshaw then would be your great-grandfather. I've managed to find him on the 1911 census and he's on that census with his mum and dad and I just want you, if you can, just to I'm going to zoom in and I just want you to just to read across that top line, if you can. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So, john Crenshaw.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Head 46, married night soil man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's that? So he went round during the evening and he emptied the cesspits.
Speaker 2:You're kidding.
Speaker 1:No, wow, in part there is a drainage system, but nothing like there is today Emptied cesspits. But there's something else I want to draw your attention to. I want you to look on the line below, which is his wife, and if you scroll across, it will tell you how many children they've had Total 15.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't have tellies in those days, did they?
Speaker 1:But keep reading.
Speaker 2:Four Still living, 11 had died. Well, do we know what from?
Speaker 1:The 1911 census reveals that John Thomas Cronshaw and his wife, Mary Ellen, were living in a two-up-two-down terrace on Primrose Hill, which was in the Hankey Park area of Salford. John was employed as a night soilman. The night soilmen were responsible for collecting and disposing of human waste. The job often involved emptying privies and cesspools. Although there was the making of a sewage system in Salford at the time, it was not yet going to every home. The census also shows that John and Mary had 15 children, with 11 sadly dying before they reached adulthood. The children died from a range of childhood diseases, such as pneumonia convulsions croup, which took the life of Catherine Cronshaw at the age of seven. 20-month-old Charlotte died in 1904 of measles.
Speaker 2:This is on my grandma's side, isn't it? I thought, wow, knight soil man, poor bugger.
Speaker 1:Did that shock you.
Speaker 2:It did, yeah, and it shocked me. My grandma was such a proud, right, such a proud lady, always dressed really well and everything, and I always thought if there was going to be poverty in the front of my grandpa's side? But no, I mean, that's a pretty nasty job, isn't it?
Speaker 1:night soil man yeah, and I think again, you know the fact that they've had 15 children 11 have died and only four have survived. I mean, they're the worst statistics that I've come across.
Speaker 2:So they were living in poverty, weren't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because even when I go back, you know he's working as a labourer often. You know it's not consistent work, is it? You just get what you can. By this point he's working for the council. So by this point he's you know, know he's got a steady job, he's working for the council. But it would have been tough yeah really tough yeah you have mentioned the story about the song and putting the. You should have put them on. Yeah, let's have a look at ethel hetrick's line then, so ethel was born in 1901.
Speaker 1:her Her parents were called Joseph William Hetrick and Sarah Tyson Bateman. They had four children. They had Lily, elizabeth, charles and Arthur, and it's Arthur who died.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:On the 7th of June 1917. Private Arthur Hetrick was born on the 12th of October 1892. Private Arthur Hetrick was born on the 12th of October 1892. When war broke out in 1914 he joined the 16th Battalion of the Lancashire Fusiliers. He later switched battalions to the 11th and in 1917 he was posted to Belgium.
Speaker 1:The plan was to take the Messines Ridge, which had been under German control since the end of 1914. The attack was carefully planned and coordinated. For over a year Allied forces had been tunnelling under the German front line, creating separate mineshafts. The plan was to detonate the mineshafts at the same time. This would then be followed by 2,000 guns and nine infantry divisions from Canada, australia and nine infantry divisions from Canada, australia, new Zealand and Britain. The war diary for Arthur's battalion reveals that by the early hours of the 7th of June all the soldiers were in position. At 2.10am watches were synchronised. Zero hour was given. For 3.10am this was when the mines would be detonated under the German trenches. In total, 19 mines exploded and the blast could be heard as far away as London. From 3.40am onwards, arthur and his comrades advanced.
Speaker 1:The fighting lasted into the evening and it wasn't until 8 o'clock that the war diary records it being all quiet. 136 men were reported as missing that day. Six were captured and 33 were killed. One of those killed was Sasha's ancestor, arthur Hetrick. His name can be found on the Ypres Menin Gate Memorial. The heartbreaking thing for me when I was doing the research on this every single year after his death they take out an advertisement in the paper saying that they're thinking of him. Every single year. Even you know this is 1942 and they're still taking out advertisements in the newspaper.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Saying that they're thinking of him.
Speaker 2:So they're a tight family then, weren't they?
Speaker 1:Really close family. Yeah, really close-knit family. So, we've unpicked. I can't believe we're nearly at the hour mark already. Has there been anything in the tree that has surprised you?
Speaker 2:I think the poverty side. I wasn't expecting that as a job. I think the connection to West Midlands surprised me because I've never heard that, really Never heard that at all. But I just don't understand how you can find all this stuff. You're like Manchester's Inspector Clouseau.
Speaker 1:I'm going to use that in my book. You did an Ancestry in ASAS and part of your Ancestry in ASAS told us about your traits.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I think I forgot about this, do you remember?
Speaker 2:yes, do you ring true?
Speaker 1:let's see. Well, I'm gonna ask you because I don't know, okay, so? I think I know I know where is she, she's gonna watch this right, okay, I'm gonna click on this one. This suggests you do not like to dance.
Speaker 2:Haters. Really I despise dancing.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Hangriness when I'm hungry.
Speaker 1:This suggests you get hangry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:Do you? Yeah, I do yes, yeah, right, are you a morning person or a night person?
Speaker 2:Night.
Speaker 1:Suggest you're a morning person. That's wrong. That's totally wrong isn't it. I will say, when you look at the traits, obviously some of it is dna, but most of it is environment. Yes, so let's just do one more before we finish. This suggests you're a picky eater 100.
Speaker 2:Very, very picky eater really, yes, yeah well s Sasha and. I probably wouldn't have had dinner with my grandpa, who's a night soil guy no, oh god, is that what you're gonna take away from this? I can't wait, do you know what? I'm literally gonna get in the car? I'm gonna phone my mum, phone Demi, yeah, uh, they're both dying to know what's really absolutely dying to. My mom knows nothing really about her past, okay, so, um, yeah, do you know what? Thank you so much. That's made my.
Speaker 1:It's been incredible you know, I've thoroughly enjoyed researching your family tree and there's been parts where I've been inspired, actually myself to think you know what if he did it? And he had nothing and he worked hard and made a success? And it's the Manchester way, it's always been the Manchester way. Anybody can do anything if you just believe in yourself. You need a bit of luck, right, but if you work hard, that's the Manchester spirit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, the worker bee.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly, and you, you know, I've seen that time and time again in your family tree and it's inspiring. So thank you very much no, thank you thank you.
Speaker 1:So that is it for this week's podcast. A huge, huge thank you to my guest, sasha lord. If you've not yet got his book, I will put a link in the description of where you will be able to purchase it from. If you get chance, please check out the Power of One campaign that I've been talking about in this video. You guys know I'm a massive dog lover and that's how I became involved in the Power of One. They're a great organisation and they work with women across the globe who are not just helping dogs, by the way, they're helping a range of different animals. So if you get a chance, please do me a favour and just check out the website. Link will be in the description below. Also, a huge thank you to Sam Hutchinson, who supports the making of this podcast. We couldn't make this podcast without you, so thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Huge thanks to my two research assistants on this episode, javeri Salim and Lucy Stott, and that is it for this week. I hope you've been getting out there researching. Thank you for all the television love. If you are in the UK, um, I was on your screens this week and I've had some really nice messages, so thank you very much. I'm back filming when you guys podcast it'll be next week, yeah, so I'll be back filming next week more tv stuff for you which will be out again next year. Have a great week researching folks. Don't forget, all the research in this podcast was done by ross thurn research. If you would like your family tree investigating or you have a mystery in your family tree that you would like solving, don't forget you can get in touch with us. I've put the uh a link to ross thurn research in the description below. Have a great week.