Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast
Step into the fascinating world of genealogy and family history with Unearth the Past, a podcast hosted by the charismatic Dr. Michala Hulme. This show masterfully blends riveting discussions, deep dives into historical contexts, and practical tips for uncovering your ancestral roots. Each week, Dr Hulme welcomes an eclectic mix of guests—musicians, actors, sports stars, and public figures—unravelling the remarkable and often surprising stories hidden within their family trees.
Beyond these compelling narratives, the podcast serves as a treasure trove for genealogy enthusiasts, spotlighting essential tools and resources for research. It also paints a vivid picture of the social and cultural landscapes that shaped family histories, exploring powerful themes like immigration, industrial revolutions, and the resilience of past generations.
If you would like to get in touch with Michala, you can do so via her website, www.michalahulme.com
If you want to help support the making of the podcast, please visit Michala's Patreon account https://www. patreon.com/DrMichalaHulme
Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast
S2: Ep 10: From Liverpool to Peru, with a bit of Manchester: Unearthing the Past with John May
Discover the unforeseen twists and turns hidden within John May's family tree as the beloved comedian and actor sits down with us to share his extraordinary lineage. Tales of heroism and scandal unfold, as we find ourselves captivated by the stark contrasts of the past, from a man who couldn't swim yet saved a child to the complicated life of John's great-grandmother, Elizabeth.
John's authentic reflections transport us back in time, and we uncover the heartrending loss of Henry Dowdall Jr. at sea during WWII and an unexpected death in Peru. The emotional retelling breathes new life into the black-and-white pages of ancestry, reminding us that the past is more than just names and dates—it's a living narrative of the human spirit.
From the Hindles and Davies to the Ruddock migration, the familial bonds are painted in vivid detail, with historical photographs igniting a sense of recognition and connection. By the episode's end, there's a profound sense of gratitude—for the stories shared, the legacies honoured, and the listeners who join us on this journey through time.
Useful Links:
Michala Hulme or @drmichalahulme
Witney Antiques
Power of One
Ancestry DNA Testing Kit with Traits - Amazon Affiliate Link
Presented by: Dr Michala Hulme
Production Assistants: Javareia Saleem & Lucy Stott
This week's podcast is supported by Whitney Antiques, an antique shop in the heart of Oxfordshire specialising in historic needlework. If you would like to know more about Whitney Antiques, check out their website at wwwwitneyantiquescom. Hello and welcome back to an eartha past, a podcast that delves into the lives of interesting people. So it's been a few weeks since my last podcast and thank you for all the amazing feedback, by the way, from Mitch's podcast with his lovely mom, jack, I hopefully I've responded to everybody and I know a few people have been in touch asking about how they would go about finding unknown parents and hopefully I have responded to everybody, I think by now. So yes, thank you for the feedback. It's been amazing. I took a bit of time off, had to have a mine operation, but the stitches are out and we are all good to go again. So on this week's podcast I am joined by a comedian and an actor. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast, the extremely funny John May.
Speaker 1:John May, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thanks for having me. It's alright anytime. So I contacted you tonight and I said do you want to come on me podcast?
Speaker 2:Yes, just out the blue.
Speaker 1:Just out the blue.
Speaker 2:Seems like a lifetime away now.
Speaker 1:It does, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It does yeah.
Speaker 1:It's took a while, this hasn't it? This family too, which we'll talk about in a minute.
Speaker 2:It's been an adventure.
Speaker 1:It has been an adventure. I've aged, compared to a lot of people that come on this podcast. You knew a bit about your family tree because, weirdly, one of my old lecturers had written a book.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder where you were going with that. Then, yeah, there's a book called Life on Attle Street and I'm lucky enough to have a copy at home and it shows my dad's family, the Moors who come over from Ireland. So there's like this book. It's got my granddad in there as a little boy, my great grandmother, my great great grandmother. She's like a proper battle axe, that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it just shows them in like, the, like, the. Is it like the 1920s?
Speaker 1:That was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, cool Boss.
Speaker 1:Now, before we actually delve into your family tree, right, I just want to spend a couple of minutes talking about you. So how did you get involved, then, in the comedy? So I know you're from the comedy side, yeah. I also know you're a brilliant actor. How did you get involved in that?
Speaker 2:Well, I've always been, I've been an actor for about 15, 15 years and I've done like loads of commercials, like bits on the telly films and what have you. And, um, like just before lockdown started, I just I just started messing around doing like comedy videos on Facebook and what have you. And I've done this just a sketch with these two women, cause, like I compared, getting ready for like the lockdown, like Christmas.
Speaker 1:Right, like you've all done for lockdown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to go to get a few bits.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've just done this sketch and I just went mad, yeah, yeah, to the point where, like, I'm selling venues out of solely Olympia out in Liverpool two nights in a row, like just after lockdown it's just sell out shows, everything else great, it's like what the hell? So yeah, first and foremost, I'm an actor.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but you've got to carve your own path, cause otherwise I'm waiting around for other people to give me a nod or give me a, so I'm using comedy as a way to navigate to where I want to be. I'll be by far better serious actor than a comedian.
Speaker 1:Anyway, let's delve into your.
Speaker 2:Come on, I can't be, because we're doing all this.
Speaker 1:All the pleasantries, let's just cut to the chase, so we're going to start then on your dad's side of the tree.
Speaker 2:Go on.
Speaker 1:And we're going to start with your dad's mum, okay, who you know as.
Speaker 2:Peggy.
Speaker 1:Peggy Margaret Carney.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Allegedly, here we go.
Speaker 1:Right, so I have a copy of Margaret's birth certificate which I can show you if you would like. Yeah, I hope he's got his readers on.
Speaker 2:Margaret's girl, William Carney.
Speaker 1:So William Carney is the dad.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Carney, formerly dothel. Yeah, why is there no one as Carney Ship watchman? William Carney, father, 18, luton Street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Is the son in there. Well, where do we start?
Speaker 2:I think it's funny that her name's Carney.
Speaker 1:Now I'm not going to jump ahead here, right, I'm going to do a few, I'm going to take a step back. So I've got her birth certificate. Now her birth certificate says that she's called Margaret Carney. You know her as Peggy. Her dad is William Carney. Her name is Elizabeth Carney, formerly dothel. We know her as doudel, but doudel and changeable Dad is a ship watchman. He was present at the birth and he was the informant. So he went and signed, filled out this birth certificate and they lived at 18 Luton Street. We know folks. This is a lie.
Speaker 2:Let me just get one thing straight here. Right, me and Michaela like Michaela's doing the family and stuff like that. But we have, we've become pals over there. We've spent hours on the phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've. I've went to family members, tried to get a little bit and stuff like that, but I don't know any more now.
Speaker 1:So, so I'll, I'll.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew this bit.
Speaker 1:So we knew of this guy called William Carney, right, and we heard a story, I think from your side of the family. Someone said that we think William Carney died in the docks.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then somebody else came and sort of looked after the family.
Speaker 2:When Peggy was seven. Another man, come along, yeah.
Speaker 1:He too. The key to sort of solving this mystery was 18 Luton Street the address. So I managed to look at the address on the electoral register and I've got a fairly comprehensive picture of who was living at the address. William Carney never lived at 18 Luton Street, but Elizabeth Dowdall did, as Peggy Margaret was born in the September of 1922, elizabeth Dowdall, margaret's mum, married somebody else that same year in the March, so she would have been we've worked it out probably about two months pregnant when she marries another man, and so you think you know the man she marries is not William Carney.
Speaker 1:She marries another man I hope you're following along. She marries somebody called Kane, William Kane, and she lives with a Mr Kane right up until this Mr Kane dies in 1927. No mention of William Carney at all. Even on official records. She never calls herself Elizabeth Carney. She doesn't even call herself Elizabeth Kane. We do know that Elizabeth does have three other children before she has Peggy, John's, grand Margaret. The dads to those children we don't know who they are.
Speaker 2:I think she's been a bit of a loose woman, as it's Micaela.
Speaker 1:We just don't know who they are.
Speaker 2:Also known as a goer.
Speaker 1:We just have no idea who they are because they're not on. The dads are not listed on the birth certificate. That's right, isn't it? So we're not quite sure who the dads are. But what we do know is that on the 1921 census this is before Margaret Peggy is born she lists herself as a widow. So she implies that she's been married. But I can't find that she was ever married before. And when she does marry William Kane, in the March of 1922, she's listed as a spinster. So she states that she's never been married. But on the 1921 census she calls herself a widow.
Speaker 1:Make of that what you will, we are as confused as you, but we're just going to keep going. I then thought I'm not getting anywhere with the paper records. I'm going to have to go to the DNA. Well, I go by. You missed you, henry. Yeah right, I just didn't want to confuse the audience, right, okay? So she marries William Kane in the March of 1922. She does live with a Kane and there is a Kane listed at 18 Luton Street throughout, but he is called Henry Joseph Kane, not William Kane which we think might be the same person.
Speaker 1:We think could be the same person. Interestingly, when she marries him in the March of 1922, when she marries William Kane, she's 35. He's 68.
Speaker 2:She was after us, though.
Speaker 1:We didn't get anywhere to be with the paper records, and this went on for weeks. By the way, we were like two in and four out.
Speaker 2:Well, there was William Kane, there was Henry Kane, there was William Kane. And I say who's the Zazie?
Speaker 1:That was the question. You went to sleep at night and asking yourself We've been on the phone for hours. Trying to work through it.
Speaker 2:She made it, she's done this. Yeah, we thought all kinds.
Speaker 1:All kinds we did. She married for insurance purposes. We didn't.
Speaker 2:I said about me, my auntie did night. Yeah, she, she's seen her grandmother, which was Elizabeth, yeah, elizabeth Dowdell, and she was getting called Mrs Carney in the in the post office and she was like, why is she getting called Mrs Carney? So she was up to something, she was a scammer, she was doing something.
Speaker 1:John think she was a scammer, but we have no proof. Yeah, I don't, we don't know. Do?
Speaker 2:we. It's like she's dead now. It doesn't matter. Yeah, she was deaf. Full claim of money. She wasn't meant to, I reckon.
Speaker 1:You've done a DNA test but obviously, as I talk about a lot on the podcast that you get 50% of the DNA from your mum, 50% from your dad, 25% from grandparents, and it gets less as you go back. However, your uncle, who is Margaret Kane, is Peggy's son, had also taken a DNA test, so I used his DNA to try and work out who the missing grandparent was, because he is closer related to the. Dna is just a bit stronger. There was also something else we couldn't explain in your ethnicity breakdown.
Speaker 2:See, I don't know anymore now. This is exciting, this is all new. I'm all ears.
Speaker 1:Now your ethnicity breakdown suggests that you are 48% Island, 26% Wales, 24% Scotland, 24% Scottish, 24% Scottish, yeah, and 2% Sweden and Denmark. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, clearly.
Speaker 1:Now we can actually go a bit further, right, so we can actually say what side of the tree this has come from. Okay, on your dad's side you are 33% Island, 17% Welsh.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:On your mum's side, you are 15% Island, 9% Welsh, 24% Scottish and 2% Sweden and Denmark.
Speaker 2:I've always felt at home in Scotland.
Speaker 1:Well, that's why so yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you not, not Scottish at?
Speaker 1:all, did you think it would be predominantly Irish? I?
Speaker 2:thought it was pretty much Irish. Yeah, I had a feeling about the Welsh because of Davies and stuff, but Scottish okay.
Speaker 1:Is that interesting for you?
Speaker 2:It is interesting. I think this is going to be the little red herring, isn't it? I think this is the red flag. This is the red flag.
Speaker 1:Who's the daddy. So that is your ethnicity breakdown. Now, when I looked at your uncles, the Welsh side on your dad's side, was stronger. Yeah, yeah, and what I was able to do, I was able to go through your uncle's cousin matches that's everybody that he shares DNA with, and on your dad's side I was able to basically put them into two camps right, the Dowdall camp, so everybody that's on the Dowdall side, and the non Dowdall camp, the mystery person camp, and I think on your dad's side that's where the Welsh comes through. I potentially think and we don't know this because we'd have to test somebody closer and there was on the non Dowdall side there wasn't as many matches as the Dowdall side. Okay, that just potentially means not many people on that side have taken a test.
Speaker 2:The mystery side.
Speaker 1:On the mystery side, but you did have some that shared DNA and that seemed to link back to a Welsh family called Evans.
Speaker 2:Good to well. Stay in that strong, stronger name.
Speaker 1:I then looked at everybody on that side, trying to find a common ancestor that you are descended from that I couldn't place within your dad's family tree to think about potentially. Who could it be? We don't know for definite. As I say, we need more people to test. We'd have to test somebody closer. But who could it be? And there was a guy who was living in the area at the time. His family had moved from Wales, he was working on the docks, so I can place him in the Liverpool area. He is the right age, so he would fit the profile and he was working on the docks at the time and we know he was living there. We know that you share DNA with that side of the family because you've come up with cousin matches.
Speaker 2:So this guy is a strong candidate.
Speaker 1:He is, yeah, but he's not Khan, he's Evans.
Speaker 2:What's his name? Evans?
Speaker 1:There's a Welsh element to your tree that we can't place. Okay, and you are definitely related to the Evans side. The Evans doesn't fall on the Dowdall side, so it is on the side we don't know of. And, yeah, it's looking pretty strong that it is an Evans. We'd have to do, we'd have to test Evans. He never married and he never had any children.
Speaker 2:I just think it's mad that my nana's mum she's probably had a one-night stand with someone and a hundred years later you've pinpointed the guy potentially. Now I'm going to it's a revelation.
Speaker 1:It's a bit of a revelation. Now I'm going to stick with the Dowdall side.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Now, elizabeth Dowdall had a brother and he was called Henry, and Henry was born in 1888, so he was three years younger than Elizabeth 1888. 1888. Now, when World War One started, he would have been about 27. Okay, and I found an article relating to him in the newspaper that I thought.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So this would be nana's uncle innit.
Speaker 1:So this would be your nana's uncle.
Speaker 2:And what?
Speaker 1:year is this, so this is 1917, during World War One. So I'm going to pass this article if you can just read it out loud. You don't need to sort of read it all, but if you can just give us a sense of what it's saying, that'd be great.
Speaker 2:Oh, liverpool defendant fined £15. That was a bit of a few, bob. Yeah. Edwin McGrath, provider-dealer of Milford Street, was summoned before the Liverpool stipend stipend Cork Yesterday for having employed a man who was an absentee without leave. Oh God, within the meaning of the reserve forces Act 1882,. Defendant was represented by Mr Muir Head who pleaded not guilty. Evidence was adduced by Sergeant WB Forrest and Henry Dowdall. The man in question had an exemption to May 15 and was called up at May 18 and extension was given by the recruiting officer to May 31. The defendant employed Dowdall until he read something. Office got hold of the man July 13th and posted to him in the KLR a fine of £15. So he was there. Bit of a shit-house.
Speaker 1:Not quite. So what's happened is he has been given some leave, right, but rather than go back to the King's Lancashiregiment, which is where we should have been, he doesn't go back, he disappears and gets a job.
Speaker 2:Oh God. So I come from a long line of shit-houses.
Speaker 1:So he basically doesn't when he should have been called up. Doesn't go back, he gets a job, and then it's found out that he's been employed by somebody when he should have been back, and this person he was probably embarrassed about his sister.
Speaker 2:You've probably all given him jib for a bit of a you know.
Speaker 1:So that's Henry, that's Elizabeth's brother. Now Henry marries a girl called Mary and they have another son. They have a son, sorry, called Henry, which would be Peggy's cousin. Okay, his dad, we know, served in World War One, goes missing but then does get dragged back. His son would go on to serve in World War Two in the merchant navy, okay, yeah. Now, on the 20th of April 1942, henry is posted on board a ship called the Avala Star Ship and he's a greaser, which basically means he works in the engine room. Wow, he's an engine attendant.
Speaker 2:What a job that was. That was a bit.
Speaker 1:The ship left Liverpool and it headed for Brenesirees. It left Argentina, should I say in July, and it had on board a crew of 166. There were 30 passengers on board. 10 of those passengers were women, and the passengers were on board because they wanted to volunteer in World War Two. So they were coming over from Argentina, they were going back to Liverpool and they were going to volunteer. Now, on the evening of the 5th of July, it's just gone dark. There is a warning at this point that potential submarines are spotted around. So what boats are doing at that time, john, is they're zigzagging.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Across the water to try and avoid being detected, but unfortunately a submarine spots the boat and fires a torpedo. The torpedo hits the starboard side of the boiler room, which is where Henry is working as the crew, and it seems quite calm at this point. So the crew and the passengers are managing to get onto lifeboats, but as the lowering the lifeboats, another torpedo hits the lifeboat and the boat sinks within 20 minutes 20 minutes. News of this obviously gets back to Liverpool that the boat has sunk. There are missing lifeboats at this point and in fact one of the lifeboats, believe it or not, full of passengers, is on the water for 20 days before it's rescued. Henry's parents are obviously beside themselves. They don't know whether he's on a lifeboat, whether he's been killed, and they don't find out until the September what's happened to him. And they actually take out an advertisement in the newspaper which I'd like to show you if that's all right.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if you can read it. There's also a picture of him.
Speaker 2:No way. Mr and Mrs Dowdall, one Newport Terrace, liverpool 5, have received a word that their son, henry Dowdall, a greaser in the Merchant Navy, has lost his life through his ship being sunk by enemy action. He was an old scholar, st Albans School, boundary street, and has been in the Merchant Navy a number of years. His parents will be grateful for any information. Wow, no way. So did he die? Yeah?
Speaker 2:I was thinking. I thought you were going to say he was on one of them boats. No, so where is this land? Buenos Aires, was it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this is just off the coast of Argentina, I think. On another article that I found, when the torpedo hit the engine room he died in the explosion, so he never made it onto the boats. Henry Dowdall wasn't the only member of your family that worked on board the ship. In fact, all the male members of your family, apart from a couple, tended to work on the docks or on the ship, which I think that's something that maybe you would expect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where he was from, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Of course, absolutely so. We can actually now go onto the May side of your tree.
Speaker 2:OK, so you're, they seem pretty respectable.
Speaker 1:So, oh, so, your great-granddad is Bernard May and he was born in 1888, and he also worked on board the ships, and in 1908 he was employed on board the White Star Celtic. Yeah, and at the time of its launch and I didn't know this the Celtic was the largest ship in the world.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Where for White Star. He worked for the White Star line on board the Celtic and the Celtic, as I say, at the time when it was launched it was the largest ship in the world. She could carry 3,000 passengers and 350 crew. And this was luxury, john. Wow, I mean it must have been. You know, you think about the Titanic. This is a few years before that, but she had.
Speaker 2:The Titanic was White Star.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Titanic was White Star.
Speaker 2:So this was sort of the predecessor to the.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was like the Big Four, and this was one of the Big Four, and these four ships every time they released one.
Speaker 2:This is cool.
Speaker 1:It was like the biggest ship in the world. This ship had electricity, spacious cabins, a library, a dining room with a beautiful glass roof, a promenade deck, Averanda Cafe, a lounge.
Speaker 2:So is there any pictures of this ship? I'm going to go home and have a good look at this.
Speaker 1:Now your great-granddad married your great-grandmother, margaret Mary Moore, on the 28th of December 1911. And their marriage certificate shows that his dad, which would be your great-great-granddad, was also called Bernard. There's a lot of Bernard's on this page. This may get complicated. It was also called Bernard. I found Bernard senior, which we call him yeah, your great-great-granddad on a couple of newspaper articles. Did ya where he actually believe it or not, receives awards for saving people Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just made me feel that nice.
Speaker 1:So on one of them he lowered a rope down to the dock and saved a man who'd fell in. When I looked into your great-great-granddad right, and I wanted to try and find out what he died of, because I knew by 1911, when his son gets married to Margaret Mary Moore, he's deceased I discovered that he was born in 1859 and he died in 1897. And I have a bit of information that I've found out about his death. So he was employed as a fireman on board ships that were coming in and out of Liverpool. Okay, on the 13th of October 1897, just after six o'clock in the morning, he is on board the ship and the ship is called the Gulf of Lyons and it heads off on its voyage. He was paid £3.15 a month, which equates to roughly £320 today, and on the 20th of December, the next time I find the ship, it's docked in Peru. Okay, so he's gone from Liverpool to Peru. Now, while in the dock, bernard sadly slips from a railing on the ship and he falls into the dock and that's how he died.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:He's buried in Peru.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Wow, but he does have a grave at Ford Cemetery, but he's not actually in it. No way. How cool is that?
Speaker 2:Is there anything there in Peru?
Speaker 1:I couldn't even tell you. I imagine there would be, because he's buried in Peru.
Speaker 2:That's mad, do you know, my dad actually fell in the dark as well. Really, he nearly died. Yeah, wow, yeah, it was the year before we were born, so my great-great-grandfather is buried in Peru.
Speaker 1:He's buried in Peru.
Speaker 2:That sounds, that's cool isn't it? Yeah, that's exotic, isn't it? Yeah? Do you think you know when you Isn't it sorry, isn't it mad, like you've got no idea about these things? It's cool, isn't it? It's exciting, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Boss. Well then, yeah, you know. When you thought, though, you had an ancestor that died in the dark.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think that might have been that story? That's just got a bit lost down the generations.
Speaker 2:Well, my nana was told her dad died in the dark.
Speaker 1:Right, okay.
Speaker 2:No, but that's a different side. But then the same fellow saving people of the dark. My dad nearly died in the dark, yeah, I must say that's a common thing.
Speaker 1:Well, so this is obviously your great-great-granddad right. If we go a step further back to your great-great-great-granddad right, he also died young. I looked into his death and he died at 40. Go on.
Speaker 2:Is he?
Speaker 1:another barnet, bernard Bernard Bronchitis.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a year before he passed away, I found an article relating to his son, which I'm going to show you now, if that's okay. Okay, bernard, your great-great-granddad, who died in Peru. This is his brother. This is relating to his brother.
Speaker 2:On the body of Charles, son of Bernard May wow, a labourer living in one cause, clemens Street. About a fortnight ago, the deceased, who was between two and three years of age, ah, was left by his mother playing in the yard when his clothes were. By some unexplained means, he was oh my God, he was so severely bed that he died. Oh my God. Oh, that's really sad, oh that's really sad. So he was two or three and he's causing firebarks and then dies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then the year after is his dad dies at 40, a bronchitis. We've spoke about your great-great-granddad who died in Peru, and I mentioned to you that he'd saved a couple of people, so we know that he'd lowered the rope down and saved a guy in the dark. Yeah, and this was another article relating to somebody that he actually tried to save. Go on, I don't know if you can read it that out for us.
Speaker 2:Drowned while bathing. Mr C Aspenall held an inquester date on the body of James McCormack, aged 25 years, a coal-heaver who resided with his sister, the wife of a seaman named Campbell, at 8th House, 16th Court, saltland Street. The deceased had a companion where bathing on the Sunday four noon in a canal near Leipo de Sreetbridge, and when they had been about a quarter of an hour into the water, a cry was raised that the deceased was drowning and Bernard May, a labourer who had been bathing immediately before, took off his clothes and went into rescue. Mr McCormack had sunk before he reached the spot. Though May dived several times, he did not succeed in grasping the body, which was afterwards recovered with grapinals I don't know what they are. The deceased was an expert swimmer. The juror returned to Vedic accidently drowned. Wow yeah, he was like a little superhero, wasn't he?
Speaker 1:How does that make you feel that he tried on numerous occasions to save people that had fell in the water? He's a proud.
Speaker 2:He's a proper man, isn't he, you know, like he's took it upon himself to be the one who, you know, risks his own life to save other people legend.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to pick up on another part of your tree now, if that's okay. So we have mentioned your great-great-granddad, who obviously passed away in Peru, and he was I love that Do you yeah, I do, yeah, I do, yeah.
Speaker 2:I hope I get bellies in Peru.
Speaker 1:Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but this will only take a minute, I promise. As many of you know, I'm a proud supporter of the Power of One, an amazing organisation that supports women across the globe who have dedicated their lives to animal rescue. One of these remarkable women is Nyang from Jai Dog Rescue in Thailand, who travels 40 kilometres on her motorbike twice a day feeding around 120 street dogs with homemade food. She does this completely on her own and she uses her pension to pay for the ingredients. However, in 2023, Nyang's bike was beyond repair and the journey to feed the dogs was becoming increasingly more difficult. That's when the Power of One stepped in. Without your support, they wouldn't have been able to raise the funds needed to get Nyang a new bike so she can carry on her amazing work Now. I know times are difficult, but if you could donate a pound of my pound anything, that would be great. But if you can't, please just spread the word about this remarkable organisation Now. Details about the organisation can be found in the podcast description. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1:And back to just one of the most important things on May's Family Tree Bernard May, your great great-granddad, who sadly passed away in Peru. He was married to a lady called Catherine Dempsey. I was able to have a look at her line. Her parents were called William Dempsey and he was born in 1829. And her mum was also called Catherine, so she was obviously named after her mum. I found a couple of articles relating to her dad, to William William Dempsey, and he also was into saving lives. There seems to be a real pattern, John, in your family tree for saving people.
Speaker 2:Even though you don't know these people, you have a sense of pride. There's an emotion there. Do you know what I mean? You can feel it. The following rewards were made to William Dempsey, doc Labour, another Labourer for jumping into the pit 12 feet deep off Stanley New Road and saving a boy had fallen in. Dempsey could not swim and kept himself up by a plank.
Speaker 1:And he got a pound reward for it which was a lot of money in those days to do that. This is great. I found another article relating to William Dempsey which tells you something.
Speaker 2:He's killed someone now, Annie. Which tells you something.
Speaker 1:A bit about his character. He called it a scratch. I'm going to read this out to you. So about three o'clock yesterday afternoon a Labourer named William Dempsey, who lived in Sherwood Street Sherwood Street, by the way, plays a real part in your family tree he lived on Sherwood Street. He was coming down the side of a boat called the Daily Star in Bramleymore Doc on which he had been working when he slipped and his arm caught upon a hook which inflicted a very serious laceration of the muscles of the upper part of the arm and the shoulder. Between seven and eight o'clock he went to the northern hospital to get his injury dressed and it was then found that his arm was wide open and that it would be necessary to detain him in the institution. When asked why he'd not gone sooner to the hospital, he said he thought it was only a slap in the face but it will incapacitate him from work for some time. His arm was hanging off.
Speaker 2:Wow See, I can relate to him a lot Like because I am also tough as old boots.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm wondering if you can relate to him in this next article that I found about him.
Speaker 2:He's definitely a murderer.
Speaker 1:So this was an inquest into his death.
Speaker 2:Okay, here we go. Conner's Inquest before Mr Clark Aspenall, conner of Liverpool, on the body of William Dempsey I'm sorry, I'm laughing a Doc labourer of 54 years of age who resided at 26 Yearwood Street. He died early on Wednesday morning, his illness having been brought on by drinking to excess as he was seldom sober a single night in a week. Wow, yeah, I relate to him, john.
Speaker 1:May came in this morning with a hand.
Speaker 2:I love the way the paper says drinking to excess. He was seldom sober a single night in a week. Verdict dies from excessive drinking. Well, this is where I get the ADHD from then William Dempsey I relate to him. I mean, took a bit longer than alcohol, I don't know, but it's like he sounds like a character.
Speaker 1:I think that as well, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, that you know, he's only a scratch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and his arm is hanging on. It's that bad, it makes the newspaper. That's how bad it is. Wow, it makes the newspaper.
Speaker 2:He seems like a funny chap bit of a tough nut. He's a proper man's man innit.
Speaker 1:I'm going to move on again now, if that's all right. We're sort of motoring through your trees today.
Speaker 2:You've got some great stories here that made up. Thank you, yeah, it's just great. You know, I've never, ever known this.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I looked as well at your mum's side of the family tree. So on your mum's side we've got the Hindles and we've got the Davies, which I think you knew already that those names were in your family tree. I managed to go pretty far back on the Davies side. I think I went back to 1812. Richard Davies, who would be your great-great-grandfather. He was born in Liverpool in 1881. Richard Davies okay, yeah, he was born in Liverpool in 1881. And I managed to get a picture of your great-great-grandfather.
Speaker 1:Did you Do? You want to see him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Go ahead. He looks very well to do Very dapper isn't he? How the hell have you got this? How, that's amazing. Wow, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Shall we keep going back. Thank you, can I have that? Of course you can. This has a weird feeling.
Speaker 2:This has like a weird effect on people, don't it?
Speaker 1:Don't see his wedding pic.
Speaker 2:These have got dope. Where are these from Liverpool? Is this him?
Speaker 1:So that's him with your great-great-grandmother.
Speaker 2:They've had money, though they haven't been skint after he. They have been living in the tenements. This is incredible. In that side you can tell there's a lot of characters that are funny. There's Banta. There's With my massage, very like Scotty Road Brash, like very.
Speaker 1:Did you think that from your mum's side?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah, me and Nana was like, hmm, I've got to be careful. When I say she wasn't, she wasn't, she wasn't, let's say she wasn't warm.
Speaker 1:Hmm, okay.
Speaker 2:No, she wasn't warm at all.
Speaker 1:If we go down to your Great-granddad. Yeah, he was a guy called James Davis who was born in 1909. He married a lady called Elizabeth Ruddock.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I was able to go again down that side of your family tree. But I've managed to get a picture of your great-great-grandfather Ruddock. Would you like to see him?
Speaker 2:Oh, looks a bit like my brother's daddy he actually does. Hmm, does the thing him work? And he got over there he was the people who worked there, and it was a girl, sharon Ruddock, and I went and I see him and I went, cause like we see a little bit of this. Yeah, it was like how am I to be leased at you? And she went. I don't know.
Speaker 1:And it turns out we are. Well, I've managed to trace that side of your tree way back, and your family end up here.
Speaker 2:In Manchester.
Speaker 1:So when we trace them right far back, we end up in Manchester. So Thomas Ruddock was born in 1818. So they're from Manchester, in Manchester. So the Ruddocks are from Manchester. So the Ruddocks descend from Manchester.
Speaker 2:Oh God, I mean it's not far like, but still, what's them days?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you feel about that Cause I imagine that you know Liverpool fan.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Manchester. How does that sit in your family tree?
Speaker 2:I've got none of these Manchester Wow. So I'm a bit of a bit of a man you are. I did live in Manchester, but I didn't like it left.
Speaker 1:Did you? Did you live in Manchester 16 months. Wow.
Speaker 2:I was living with this girl left in the middle of the night. I couldn't handle it anymore. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:We are nearly getting to the end. We've got four minutes left. I just want to ask you a couple more questions. How have you found it today?
Speaker 2:It's an unusual feeling, cause I don't know these people, but they build up who I am, so they are what become before me, and if I waited for them I wouldn't be here. I don't know them, but like I'm proud of the guy who was saving people, I think the fellow who's is it Bernard or something? No, dempsey.
Speaker 1:Dempsey, william Dempsey, he's a character.
Speaker 2:I could just see him in my head. You could write a comedy about that guy and yeah, it's just, I've got this, I've got this knowledge. Now you know what it's amazing.
Speaker 1:If you could tonight invite anybody from your family tree, maybe somebody who spoke about, maybe somebody we haven't for dinner, who would it be? Why? What would you cook.
Speaker 2:It'd be William Dempsey.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he could only stay for one night, cause he'd probably do me a thing.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I'll probably just get him a bottle of Vogue, cause he probably wouldn't want to eat anyway.
Speaker 1:John May, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Oh, okay, thank you, I'm going to miss you. I'm going to miss our chats. Honestly, elizabeth Dowdall, I feel like I'm going to have to go to, like you know, a psychic or a medium and see if they can get in touch with her.
Speaker 2:I just find out she's probably having flings in heaven.
Speaker 1:She's a hussy. I did not say that.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Thank you. So that is it for this week's podcast. I really hope you enjoyed my chat with John May. I must say a huge thank you to Becky from Whitney Antiques for sponsoring this podcast, and also to Sam from the Power of One. I couldn't make these podcasts without you, so thank you very much. A massive thank you as well to my two production assistants, javaria Salim and Lucy Stutt. Thank you for your hard work and your patience on this episode, and a huge thank you to you, every single one of you that takes the time to download or even watch. If you're watching on YouTube this podcast, I really appreciate it. Please remember to like and subscribe this podcast and until next time, have a great week researching.