Unearth the Past: A family history & genealogy podcast

S2: Ep6: A Tale of Resilience and a Family's Sporting Heritage in Manchester with Vinny Shoreman

• Dr Michala Hulme • Season 2 • Episode 6

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As I sat down with Vinny Shoreman, it became quickly apparent that his journey from a Manchester youth indifferent to football to a revered Mind Coach and Thai Boxing commentator was no ordinary tale. The Shoreman family story deeply intertwined with the city's sporting heritage, unfurls in our latest episode, bringing to light a legacy of perseverance through struggles like domestic violence and alcoholism. Vinny's candid reflections on his upbringing, without traditional guidance, and how he carved a path to success, underscore the resilience embedded in his family's DNA—a narrative of strength and inspiration that's sure to resonate with anyone facing their own battles.

Through our conversation, the echoes of Manchester's historical pulse reverberate as we trace Vinny's ancestry back to 1766, revealing not just a family's story, but the spirit of a city. We honor the memory of his gt Uncle, Benjamin Shoreman, a war veteran who fought in some of the bloodest battles of WWI. Vinny's reflections on his mother's unwavering fortitude and the indelible influence of his late brother Paul weave a poignant fabric of familial bonds, humour, and belief. Prepare to be moved by an episode that transcends a simple recounting of history, offering instead a powerful exploration of the human condition through the lens of one family's remarkable journey.

To watch this episode on YouTube, Click Here!

A huge thank you to today's sponsor, Witney Antiques
To contact Dr Michala Hulme: www.michalahulme.com
To contact Vinny Shoreman: www.theshoremansolution.com

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Speaker 1:

This week's podcast is sponsored by Whitney Antiques, an antique shop in the heart of Oxfordshire specialising in historic needlework. If you'd like to know more about Whitney Antiques, check out their website at wwwwitneyantiquescom. Hello and welcome back to Unearth the Past, a podcast that delves into your family history with me, Dr Meghalie Hume. So I hope you've had a lovely Christmas and a fabulous new year. I wish I could tell you I did something amazing for New Year. I actually didn't, I'm not gonna lie. I was in bed for half 10. I think I'm showing my age. So who got a DNA test for Christmas? Then, if you did, let me know. You can drop me a message. You can do so via my website, which is wwwmakhaliehumecom.

Speaker 1:

So on today's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by the wonderful Vinnie Shorman. Vinnie is a globally recognised mind coach. His client list includes some of the highest achievers in sport, business and professional life, from astronauts to world-renowned fighters. Vinnie offers support, guidance and mentorship to help them achieve their goals and aspirations. Vinnie also has vast unrivaled experience over decades at the highest levels of combat sports. Early in his career he cut his teeth as a world-class coach in tie boxing, guiding fighters to British, european and world honours. He later supplemented this by becoming one of the most sought after commentators, sharing his knowledge and experience across all major promotions within the sport. Vinnie Shorman. Welcome to the podcast. Vinnie Shorman, thank you so much for coming on my podcast today.

Speaker 2:

Thanks very much, nice, it's gonna be interesting for me because it was not interested in what's gone on before.

Speaker 1:

Now, before we sort of delve into the past. How did we get here? So how did you end up becoming a mind coach and a commentator?

Speaker 2:

I've been involved in tie boxing since I was 15 years of age. I got into it because I wanted to jump in the air and kick things. People generally be like a heroic Jackie Chan type of stuff.

Speaker 1:

I was brought up on martial arts basically, and Can I just say was that pretty unusual, Because I imagine a lot of lads in that time probably would have played football.

Speaker 2:

So what was it?

Speaker 1:

about martial arts that I was rubbish at football.

Speaker 2:

We just rubbish Awful. I remember there was a story where we was I lived in Longside in Manchester and remember there was a squad like a squad of the rubbish kids got to be in the team, in the squad and I remember this one particular time where I was gonna play for the school match and Peter Chan I'll never forget him got picked instead of me and scored. Yeah, because I didn't have garters for me socks and my socks used to fall down and the teacher. I had done a lot of that, but yeah, so basically I was rubbish at football, so never into sports anything like that. And then I just enjoyed boxing. I liked boxing from a young age for some reason Wasn't violently or violent minded and then just got into tie boxing and the progression from being not really a fighter being more good at talking about it. It became a commentary. So here I am.

Speaker 1:

And you know, today we're gonna have a look into your family tree. What do you know about your family tree?

Speaker 2:

I know that my granddad was in the box in the army. I think I know that he might have turned professional. My dad used to dabble in boxing, mainly boxing with my mum, really, because he wasn't a very pleasant man. My other, my mum's dad, was in the army. He was well, I believe, in mould. Not much. But I come from a turbulent life. To be honest, it was a lot of alcohol, a lot of abuse, violent abuse towards my mum. My mum was violent towards her and her sisters, not too sure about what she did with her brothers, but yeah, it was turbulent, to say the least, you know.

Speaker 1:

I know a lot of people come to you for advice and for guidance and you've helped me out.

Speaker 2:

that's how I know that More than a pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I was struggling a bit, driving on motorways, I have anxiety and I came to see you and you very kindly helped me. But, thinking about your upbringing, where have you gone to get guidance or help, like when you were growing up? Who was that person that was there for you?

Speaker 2:

I don't know. If I'm truthfully honest, probably no one. If I'm honest, not really. My mum was always don't be so soft, don't be so stupid, get on with it. That was the narrative of post-war children, wasn't it? They was all the same generational trauma, as they call it. So, not really anyone, Just people that I ended up being friends with. But there's been many people around me as an adult as a guidance from people not many, maybe Thai boxing coach MasterScan, who trained us, who's from Thailand, and he had very good values and instilled discipline. What I didn't have. My mum was a very loving person, but advice, mum, everything was don't be soft, don't be stupid, go on with it, don't be so mad. It was never. It was always very black and white instead of grey. But yeah, not really. Not really anyone, to be honest.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're going to start looking into your family tree. We're going to start with the Shorman line. So I know you've already mentioned that you were not a person that was involved in sports much grown up. Well, I can tell you that the sport gene is very strong in the Shorman line.

Speaker 2:

Really.

Speaker 1:

Very strong. So your granddad was a boxer and I've got a couple of little newspaper articles, oh, no way that I'm going to show you. So your granddad, who was William Alfred Shorman and he was born in 1887. Okay, so this is from 1909. And this is reference. You'll see a reference to a W Shorman. That's your granddad.

Speaker 2:

In Longside as well. So if you can read it out for me, ben, there were some spirited bouts last night at the City Atlantic Club. Sk's Longside beat W Shorman of Manchester by knocking them out in the first round. Yeah, that goes for my winning record. Is there anyone where he won? Start off in a cheery mode, then I'm getting chinned.

Speaker 1:

So this was a bit later. So the one you saw before was in November. This is what's happening in December, and it's just on the bottom line. According to local newspapers, vinny's granddad, william, who was representing Collierhurst in Manchester, had two fights, losing his first by knockout and winning his second against a J Stockford of Gordon in the fourth round. By the time William was boxing, the sport had become more professionalised, with boxers following the Queensbury rules. This meant that the days of boxing matches descending into wrestling brawls were no longer allowed, and instead each fight consisted of three minute rounds, the fighters had to wear gloves and there was a 10 second count after every knockdown.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my mum was from Collierhurst. Collierhurst and Newton A for believe. But yeah, I mean, what springs to mind in my head is if you got stopped in a fight and then fighting a month later after being stopped. I mean, that's what I'm heard of now, so obviously the time's different.

Speaker 1:

At this time, at the beginning of the 20th century. This is when a lot of the boxing clubs are emerging, because Manchester in the 19th century, the end of the 19th century, has a real problem with youth gangs and crime.

Speaker 1:

So at the beginning of the 20th century we see a lot of things like the scouts being formed and boxing clubs being formed in Manchester to sort of channel, I think, the lads energy. It would get channeled somewhere else eventually because obviously in 1914, world War One happens and then all these young lads then go off to fight. Vinnie's granddad, william, was not the only sportsman in the family. His dad played cricket and his uncle, fred, was a distance runner for the North Manchester Harriers. He was captain of the team and he won the 10 mile club championship a remarkable seven times in 10 years, coming second only once. By 1905, fred had left Manchester and moved to New Mills where he would go on to become the secretary of the New Mills and Newton Cricket and Athletic Club and also an athletics judge.

Speaker 2:

That's mad, though I never knew. Obviously I'm not going to know because I don't do your job, but that's crazy man, that's really crazy.

Speaker 1:

So they were all. You didn't pass me that one.

Speaker 2:

I can't drive 10 miles in that anyway, you know what I mean, but that's mad though.

Speaker 1:

The reason I know that was because I did a newspaper search of the name Shorman in Manchester and there was a couple of hundred Shormans in Manchester. What was interesting for me as a historian and genealogist was that they didn't do anything wrong. So normally when I do a newspaper search, vinnie and people come up, it's normally because they're criminals or they've done a crime or they've done something bad. No, when I looked into the Shormans they didn't do anything wrong. They were just coming up time and time again for sport.

Speaker 1:

Oh, why, For cricket, for football, for running. They would just seem to be a real sort of sporty family. So when you said I'm not very good at sport, I thought clearly that's not in your DNA, because if we go back you've got quite a few sportsmen in your genes.

Speaker 2:

I don't know whether it's lack of encouragement that I weren't good at sport. I think it was more of a belief system. It was lack of confidence for me because I never really had anyone to aspire to. I never had anybody to around me that supported me in a way that a dad would support the son. We've done it with a stepdaddy. I hated it and it was a mutual feeling, to be honest, and I'm not going to change it because he's dead and you go. He shouldn't speak ill of the dad. He was lovely, he went, I didn't like him and I'm not going to change that. However, I have a compulsion to train and I don't know what it is he's like. I have to train. It's just in me.

Speaker 1:

So I guess maybe that's a discipline thing. I think it's funny that you've obviously gone into boxing. I know you have a boxing brain, so I know that you study fights and you know boxing in and out. And yet, like we said, your dad boxed and your granddad boxed. So, do you think maybe somehow that's how you ended up boxing?

Speaker 2:

It's strange because I remember watching boxing. I was about 13. I started boxing when I was 13. Because I lived in Knudtsford, there was no boxing club. So we went to Sail West, where Ricky Hatton was from, and I remember watching fights and I just knew what was going to happen. And it's almost like that's going to happen. This is going to happen, and with fights and watching them, especially being a commentator, and obviously because of experience, you say is this kid going to get caught? You could just have an eye for it. I don't know what it is, I don't know why, you don't know how. I just seem to have an understanding for it, which, yeah, it's. Yeah, I'm not obsessed with it. It's funny. I was saying on the way here when I was watching Russian boxing and yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe, so I cannot be in your DNA. It's crazy.

Speaker 1:

So the first record I've actually found your dad on was the 1939 register and that was taken just prior to World War II and your dad is on that record and at the time they're living at 116 Smedley Road Now also in the house just before the war. We have got his dad, william, we've got his mum, emma, and we've also got your dad's brother, a guy called Fred.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, fred, I mean you, uncle Fred, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Missing from the house at the time was Vinny's dad's other brother, william. However, I did manage to find a newspaper article relating to an incident that had been written some years later. William was driving his truck when he tried to overtake another lorry. While doing the manoeuvre, he saw a dog, which he swerved to miss, and then hit a lamppost. He was lucky to survive the mangled wreck. Does that sound like a showman?

Speaker 2:

100%, that's what I do, yeah listen, you know what I'm light with dogs.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'd have done the same 100% that's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I can imagine that's what you do.

Speaker 1:

William's birth certificate reveals that he was born on the 20th of June 1920. He was eight years older than Vinny's dad. The record also shows that Vinny's granddad, william, was a private in the West Riding Regiment during World War I. Vinny's granddad was born in 1887 and the first record that I can find him on is the 1891 census and I've actually got him on the first census record. So the census is obviously taken every 10 years. So the first census we can find him on is the 1891 English census. And the whole family are living on Abel Street and they're living at 50 Abel Street, which is in in Manchester, in Harper Hay, not far from the dog's home, if you know the dog's home. So I don't know if you can make them out. They're just at the top there, vin.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, william, margaret, william again and Benjamin, my son's called Benjamin.

Speaker 1:

So all three lads enter World War I and they all survive. I think it's probably fair to say that Ben had the most action during World War I.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And we know that because we do have his war records. Unfortunately, we've not got them for your granddad. I've got a couple of records. I know what battalions are in, and also for your granddad's other brother. We haven't got them for him either, but we do have them for Ben.

Speaker 2:

Benjamin Norman B, private Manchester Regiment, volunteering in January 1915. Proceed, obviously, four months later.

Speaker 1:

Benjamin Shorman signed up to join the war effort in January of 1915. He was posted to the Second Battalion of the Manchester Regiment and four months after signing up he was on a boat heading to France and Flanders. Ben was involved in some of the most important and bloodiest battles during World War I, including the Battle of Luz and the Somme. During November of 1916, while on the front line he was injured and sent back to Britain to recover. Following three months in a military hospital, he was posted to the Scottish Rifles where he would play his part in the battles of Ypres, bully Corps and Cambry. He was eventually demobilised in February of 1919. I'm sure you can count how many battles he was involved in.

Speaker 2:

Crazy.

Speaker 1:

And some of the biggest battles, I suppose, that were in World War I.

Speaker 2:

No way.

Speaker 1:

When you think of World War I, and he was at them all. So he survives the war. Now we know from his records comes out of the war in 1919, he's ill, and we know that because his brother is actually writing to try and get his regiment number. Now I'm presuming that is because it might be to do with like a pension or some sort of insurance payout, but we know that he's ill In 1927, he succumbs to TB and his brother and his widow are trying everything they can to try and get this regiment number Because well, they're being what Charles or.

Speaker 1:

Charles, yeah, because what happens is when he gets injured in the Somme, he's in the Manchester Regiment, but when he actually goes back in again, he's in a different regiment and it's the second regiment number that they're desperately trying to get a hold of Right and he's in a sanatorium, which is normally for people who are recovering or struggling with TB.

Speaker 2:

Right, do you know why it's called Ben? Because this is sounds really. I've never told anyone, no one knows this at all, but on my foot he's like oh you know, you got veins on the bottom of your foot and it's spelt Ben and I don't know why, right, but I just wanted to call him Ben. I called my son Ben. That's why it's literally why.

Speaker 1:

That is the best reason.

Speaker 2:

I've just seen it and went Ben and went, and then that's the reason why it was called Ben.

Speaker 1:

Right, I love that Vinnie.

Speaker 2:

Spooky, that innit yeah.

Speaker 1:

So your grandmother was called Emma and I've actually got their marriage certificate, if you want to see it, yep, so Emma was my dad's mum. Yeah, okay, but if you look next to her, name you'll notice Widow. So when he marries her, she's actually a widow.

Speaker 2:

Really.

Speaker 1:

So Emma Smith married Vinnie's granddad, william Albert Schoerman, on the 25th of October 1919 at the Albert Memorial Church in Collierst. This was not her first wedding at this church. Some seven years earlier she'd married a labourer named Albert Johnson. The couple went on to have two children, samuel and Albert Jr. When war broke out in 1914, albert signed up to join the Manchester Regiment and when they were serving with the Manchester he was killed in action on the 5th of January 1918. The marriage certificate for Vinnie's grandparents, emma Smith and William Albert Schoerman, reveals that William's dad, vinnie's great-granddad, was also called William Albert and was a labourer. William Albert Sr had a few jobs during his lifetime he was a cart driver, a builder and also worked on the floor of a publishing house.

Speaker 2:

I heard somewhere because I talked to my brother this morning because he knew he was coming on and he said he was a rag and bone man, quite possibly A car driver.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, quite possibly A rag and bone man, but it seems to say it seems he had quite itchy feet. He did quite a few different professions during his lifetime.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I can relate to that.

Speaker 1:

Can you? Yeah, why can you relate to that I've done all sorts of it.

Speaker 2:

I've been a labourer, I've been a chef, I've worked, you know loads of different things. I've had loads of different jobs and never really settled until I started doing hypothermia and being a mind coach, and these are the two things. But I did all sorts. Yeah, always have.

Speaker 1:

And is that just as effective? You've always worked hard, because when I look into your family tree, you are from working class. You know grafters, people that worked hard the whole lives to put food on the table, to care for the kids. All the kids seem to do all right for themselves.

Speaker 2:

I've got a plan for hard work. I think I believe that you should work and you keep yourself in shape and healthy because your kids don't have to come into the world. I think you sign an unwritten agreement with life I believe with God or whatever to be able to be around for your kids as long as you can, as long as you possibly can. I think it's a duty as a parent to keep yourself healthy, not just provide from what you do but, it's just to keep yourself healthy.

Speaker 2:

I think that's extremely important to me.

Speaker 1:

Well, I researched your family tree, the Shorman line, and I went back to 1766. And I can honestly tell you that if we cut you, the medlock will just flow out of you. You are Manchester on the Shorman line, through and through, right back to the 18th century. Right. Did you think that, did you think?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've spoke to you briefly before about it. Everything that they've ever been mentioned, the Shormans have always been. I cut us back to Manchester, so, yeah, I can understand that.

Speaker 1:

Are you proud of your?

Speaker 2:

Manchester roots 100%. I remember being at school. It's weird how these things throw up things for you. I remember being at school and being fascinated by the industrial revolution.

Speaker 2:

I think the first computer was Manchester, wasn't it? And the River Erwell and stuff like that, and I had this odd fascination for it as a kid and when we was learning I think that was in Longside, so it was only about nine and I remember being fascinated by Manchester. So, yeah, it'll always be home, regardless of what. I've lived in, liverpool et cetera, and I'm happy where I am, but Manchester will always be home. Or it'll be home for you, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1:

Now I'm going to flick over to your mum's side, if that's okay. So tell me a bit about your mum then, vin.

Speaker 2:

My mum was an extremely hardworking lady, Obviously the receiver of numerous beatings off me dad.

Speaker 1:

That must have been tough for you then was it growing up?

Speaker 2:

It kind of not. It wasn't because he was on Stellarzy in my dad. My dad was a registered psychopath. I remember reading it somewhere divorce papers or something. But my dad was an extremely violent human being and my mum suffered at that hands of him. But she worked two jobs, worked diligently. She was a nurse for a short period of time, I believe, and she took no nonsense but she was very empathetic nature my mum as well, so I think I get that from her.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say where did you get that from?

Speaker 2:

I think you get it from her. I think you get, I don't know, I think my mum had, because my mum had a stillborn son before me called Michael Right and he died obviously stillborn but he died before me. And then when she had me, I think the anxiety of because I had a child had asthma, I think the anxiety of what she suffered, the post-traumatic stress disorder that she had with her son. I think she projected that onto me Because she was very sort of worried about me being obviously dying or whatever. So I believe that anxious thing was put on me rather than what I would get naturally, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

So growing up then, so there was you and your siblings. So I know obviously you were spoken about the relationship between your mum and your dad, but were you and your siblings close?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we are. We are not as close as they are with each other, because there's a considerable gap.

Speaker 1:

Right, okay.

Speaker 2:

It was eight years between us, me and my sister Marie but yeah, I loved them daily. But they grew up more together because I lived in Longside. Then my sister left because she was 18 or whatever, so I was more on my own. But yeah, I loved them daily and they've all got wonderful sense of humour. So my family are very quick-witted.

Speaker 1:

I've been told that your brother, paul, was the funniest person on the planet. Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2:

Paul was the funniest he suffered. He had a really, really bad health span. That was, yeah, it was unfair. It was one of those things that you think how can someone how can be bestowed with such cruelty really in health-wise. And I still miss him. I still echo Some of the things he said, still echo with me and he always will, and yeah, I've taken far too soon if I'm honest, but yeah, he was funny, really funny. He's very, very smart and just dry, quick-witted. And, like you said in the beginning, though, if there was anyone that the influence my kid believed in me. I remember our Paul, even from a young age, always Believe to me, sort of thing, and I'll never forget that. I'll never. I'll never forget him for that. So if it was anyone, yeah, it would be and.

Speaker 2:

Alan, my brother as well. The all had played the part, but as a role models, like a father figure or whatever. No, the not.

Speaker 1:

So should we have a look at your mum's side? Yes, please. Now I know you thought that your mum's mum was Irish. Yes, but she wasn't Irish Really. No, she wasn't Irish. Vinnie's mum's parents were George Roberts and Marion Hallwood. George Roberts was born in 1894 in Oswestry, shropshire. He spent the whole of his working life as a miner and it's likely that this is what brought him to Manchester. The 1921 census reveals that he was working at the Bradford Collery, which used to stand where Manciti's ground is today. George's dad was called Evan Roberts and he was born in Wales, and his mother, emily Jones, was born in Staffordshire. Now, because I was unable to find a birth certificate or marriage certificate for Evan Roberts, I was not able to go back any further on the Roberts line. So do those names ring a bell to Florence and George ring a bell, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I know his name was George Roberts and I know her name was Florence, but I didn't know. It was Hallwood.

Speaker 1:

Florence, was born in 1899 in Manchester. She marries George on the 4th of August 1919, so just after the war. Her dad is called Daniel and her mum is Mary Wynne. Daniel Hallwood was born in 1869 in Manchester. He was employed as a slate labourer and before that he worked as a dyer. Daniel and his wife Mary Wynne had 11 children, with four sadly dying before they reached adulthood.

Speaker 1:

The 1891 census shows the couple, not long after their marriage, living in a back to back on Coates Street in Ang Coates. By this time back to back could no longer be built in Manchester. They were outlawed in the mid 19th century because they were deemed to be a threat to human health due to a lack of adequate ventilation, therefore leading to the spread of disease. Daniel Hallwood's parents, frederick Hill Hallwood and Leticia Meredith, moved to Manchester from Liverpool sometime in the early 1860s. Frederick married his wife Leticia Leticia Meredith in Liverpool and I've got a copy of their marriage if you'd like to see it. Frederick Hallwood married Leticia Meredith on the 25th of June 1854 at the parish church in Liverpool. At the time of their marriage, frederick and Leticia were both living on Gower Street. Frederick was employed as a woodcarver and his dad, james, was a watchmaker.

Speaker 2:

So Scouser as well. I lived in Liverpool for years and I loved it. I was going to say have you got?

Speaker 1:

a connection to Scouser.

Speaker 2:

I loved it because I don't even know I've got nothing against anywhere, any area of anywhere, to be honest, but I don't know I really liked it. I still go training there now and try 45 minutes there training 45 minutes back. There's just something about it that seems to be weird.

Speaker 1:

It is weird, I think, when you start to sort of look into it and you start to weird parallels, don't you, with the life you sort of live in now? So Leticia's dad, he was a candle maker, and obviously Frederick's dad is a watchmaker. So quite crafty skills aren't they?

Speaker 2:

Yes, skilled stuff.

Speaker 1:

Are you good at anything like? That so you're not good at the way I've been.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm the worst ever. Oh God, no, don't ever let me do anything. I'm not that way inclined really that I've not got that man sort of screwdrivery, no so that gene didn't pass down that gene's gone. Yeah, unfortunately, but I don't think there's much car for what's it. Candle makers and more of yourself. We got out of that one pretty easy.

Speaker 1:

Now Leticia. She was born in Ireland, so that side is definitely Irish. You've definitely got a strong Irish gene running through on both sides of your tree. A lot of your ancestors have moved for work and have left a place that they would call home and move somewhere totally different.

Speaker 2:

I've never had a problem with it. I mean, when I was younger I was like you know, you're off the top of your trepidations and worry about it, making friends and stuff like that, which I haven't had a problem with. But yeah, I've never really had a problem with it anywhere. It doesn't it? I could you know, I've lived in all sorts of places and never I'm going to go anywhere and visit anywhere and never feel out of place anywhere.

Speaker 1:

If I'm honest, Would you say you're proud, Vin, of your working class roots.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course I am. Yeah, of course I am. I had a problem with it when I was younger because I lived from going from Longside to Knutsford. It's like night and day, isn't it.

Speaker 2:

You know, what I mean. It's like, you know, it's like shopping at Aldi and then going to say to say, harrods, isn't it? You know what I mean. So for me I had a problem with that, but I mean working class. Now I just I'm proud of, I'm proud of what we did, what we've done, and proud of where we are. And what would? I thought that the other day, because I live in a nice house and I'm shappled now and it's a lovely place and great people, I love it. But I know I never thought I would get there. I always thought I was. I don't know, I don't know. I always believed that I was aiming low and but I've, you know, I've got to a higher standard and long way to continue. I'll continue to work hard to get where I have to get to, you know.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to show you some pictures of some of the houses that your ancestors are living in, and then we shall wrap it up. So this is Red Bank, and this is an area of Manchester which is just near Strangeways and on the Shorman line. In the 1880s, your ancestors were living in Red Bank.

Speaker 2:

I don't know why.

Speaker 1:

And that's the street they lived on.

Speaker 2:

It looks like where I open all hours is set, doesn't it?

Speaker 1:

How would you describe that?

Speaker 2:

It's like a hovel. I'm honest. It's quite unusual though, isn't it? It's like the structure here and etc. But yeah, it looks rough, isn't?

Speaker 1:

it.

Speaker 2:

Do you want to?

Speaker 1:

show you some more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, go on.

Speaker 1:

Now you might think that this isn't progress, but if you look outside, you'll probably spot what these houses have.

Speaker 2:

Which coronation street?

Speaker 1:

Which the others didn't.

Speaker 2:

They got an outside toilet, or what.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, by the time we are getting into the start of the 20th century this is a picture of around that period you'll notice that they have got outside lose.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, it's mad, isn't it? It's quite subduing as well, you know, because it makes you think you're obviously stuff that you didn't know or and it makes you just I don't know. It subdues you in a way. It's quite a strange experience to have people tell you about people that have made you really so what about your great-granddad, william Alfred Shorman?

Speaker 1:

I just want to show you this article Now. This is one of his sons, this is George, and this was the only article I could find of your Shorman ancestors. Getting in a bit of trouble. Okay, in 1884, vinnie's great-great-uncle George, a carter from North Kent Street, was fined five shillings for working a horse that had a bad back.

Speaker 2:

Alright, so it's cruelty to horses, eh.

Speaker 1:

That is your only, so that's not my family.

Speaker 2:

Well, that is your only I don't refuse to have animal cruelty.

Speaker 1:

so just to say that even in the past, that was the only thing I could find that was slightly negative about the Shormans in the press. So what I will say was they were a very hard-working family from Manchester who kept themselves themselves very much into sport, and I imagine that came from your great-great-granddad who obviously pushed his sons into sport, and then that filtered down and it's been an absolute pleasure, vinnie, looking into your family tree.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, it's been Sorry for those bits. I'm not normally this quiet as a person, but to hear the information, it changes your whole perspective as to what you believe you were told and what is actual factual. So yeah, thank you for having me. It's fruit me out a bit, but yeah, cheers, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

So that is it for this week. Thank you so much for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that, and also a huge thank you to my sponsor, Whitney Antiques. Thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I couldn't do it without you. Thank you, Don't forget. If you want to get in touch with me and send me a message, you can do so via my website, which is wwwmackaylahumecom. As always, I always sign off by saying have a great week researching and I shall see you next week. Goodbye.